The Jacksonville Jaguars

[Bativac]

Another "rebuilding" year I guess

[Todd_Parker]

Six 1st Round draft picks the last 3 years (including a "generational-talent" QB) and this is where we're at.

[Ken_FSU]

Lamping immediately jumped in when Khan finished his thought, adding that the covering for fans at the Miami Dolphins' Hard Rock Stadium isn't enough for Jacksonville.

"As an aside, there's not shade on all seats at Hard Rock. The visiting side is incredibly hot. That Hard Rock solution wouldn't work for the Jaguars."

"Let's think bigger, as opposed to thinking smaller," Lamping said. "Why not an NCAA Final Four? Why not a college football [national] championship game? What about more concerts? All those things can happen if there's certainty, in the case of Florida with the weather.

"Certainty comes with making sure. . . . maybe having a roof. There's no reason why we shouldn't think big."

Reading between the lines, I think the price tag is going to be much, much higher than people think.

The article mentions an "expected" $600 million to $1 billion price tag.

Not a prayer this project comes in at less than $1.2 billion.

Hard Rock was $750 million when all was said and done before the cost of everything went through the roof.

What's interesting to me is that you've essentially got two questions to answer as a city:

1) Is the price tag worth it to remain an NFL city? To me, that's an easy yes.

2) Is the price tag worth it to retain an NFL franchise under Shad Khan's ownership/leadership? To me, this is a little harder one. Team is 44-124 under Shad Khan, the worst record in NFL history for an owner. For 11 years running under Khan, we've lost 3 out of every 4 games we've played. Median wins each year under Khan are 3.5. Our fans, on average, only get to see two Jags wins per year in Jacksonville over the last four years, to go along with 5-6 losses annually. We've let our biggest stars and most beloved players walk. We've resigned nearly nobody for second deals. We've had the NFLPA actively urge players not to come here. We've got an ownership group that only speaks to the local media in London and when asking for taxpayer dollars. It's not inconceivable that we could get a THIRD STRAIGHT overall first pick in the draft. In my opinion, we've ruined every promising quarterback that we've drafted (it's still crazy to me that people are blaming Trevor for his slow NFL start after we brought him into perhaps the worst culture in modern NFL history under Urban Meyer and made him split reps all preseason with Minshew).

Would obviously never happen, but you'd love to see some kind of a clause in the lease agreement that would levy some kind of financial penalty on the team if they can't find a way to fullfill their end of the deal and operate a reasonably competitive NFL franchise. We're not talking playoffs, just some kind of assurance that we're not going to be leveraging our financial future as a city just to set historical records for futility every year.

Would love to see the lease exclude the clause from the original stadium lease that gave the team the right to relocate if they could prove financial losses for two consecutive seasons as, ultimately, that would be a factor of their ineptitude, not a lack of market support.

And, with Shad Khan now at 72 years old, I think we need to ask hard questions about his succession plan to, as any rebuilt stadium likely wouldn't open until he was nearly 80. Will Tony get the team when he retires? Will he sell?

[pierre]

Same record through eight games as last year under Urban. Yikes.

[marcuscnelson]

I would be very confused as to where exactly Khan expects more than maybe half a billion to come from, especially knowing no help is coming from the state like in Tennessee or New York. At some point we simply run the risk of a taxpayer revolt, trying to pour this amount of money into football when we can't even pick up the recycling on time. The bed tax obviously isn't going to be enough.

Unless we do some kind of "BJP 2" sales tax proposal where we're looking at something like funding stadium reno, moving the jail, maybe commuter rail, sewers, plus... I dunno, roadway projects and parks or something, I'm not sure where the money is supposed to come from, especially if we're supposed to fund half of a Lot J 2 on top of that.

On one hand, Khan has had an absolutely excruciating tenure of ownership, but on the other, can we guarantee that someone else wouldn't decide to up and move if we don't keep playing ball? Or that the other NFL owners would agree to striking the relocation clause from the contract?

I imagine Tony would inherit the shares somehow, but at the same time I'm unsure how invested he is in keeping the team. There are plenty of other ventures for him to keep his attention on, including AEW and all the UK enterprises.

It's just so frustrating to feel like we've ended up right back where we were almost two years ago, with all these expenses looming in the distance and no clear reason why it's worth spending on them.

[jaxlongtimer]

If the price tag is much over $1 billion, it may be better to just build a new, ground-up stadium for a bit more that will last for more than 30+ years.  But, that will likely push the total to at least between $1.5 and $2.0 billion.  Now, who pays for that?

As our population grows and spreads out, maybe someone should look at a regional sports authority (like the NFTPO is for transportation) that can tap into contributions from our surrounding growing and increasingly wealthy counties where a big chunk of Jags fans (and players and coaches) likely live. 

Is it fair to tax a low income resident in the Northwest Quadrant to subsidize the pleasures of a Ponte Vedra Jags fan?  Studies have shown repeatedly that sports franchises do not benefit, financially, the general populace of a supporting city so it can't be said that Duval residents enjoy economic benefits over the surrounding areas and, therefore, should contribute disproportionately.

[marcuscnelson]

I'm not convinced we'd get more than a 30 year lease even if a new stadium was built to stand longer, at which point we'd have to spend more money on renovations anyway. If it's possible to just renovate now I'd rather do that and hope the city is more prosperous enough in 30 years to bite that bullet.

As far as an authority, I think the problem is that there's not much of anything obligating the suburban counties to decide to buy in. Ponte Vedra just legally isn't big enough to have its own TPO so they have to be part of the NFTPO. Heck, if you want to talk about transportation, the need for a single regional transportation operator has been discussed for over a decade now, but the counties have just refused to take any action on actually doing something. JTA has assumed some of that responsibility, with commuter rail planning and the Express Select buses, but actually usefully building a regional system just hasn't happened. And if we can't get that for something as needed as transportation, I don't know how you'd make it happen for something as optional as football.

[jaxlongtimer]

^ Points noted but, sadly, there may be more enthusiasm for sports than transportation around NE Florida .

To be clear, Ponte Vedra is part of unincorporated St. Johns County so it would not have any legal standing to participate in inter-governmental activities.  It would have to be through St. Johns County's government.

[Steve]

Calvin Ridley to the Jags. Remember, he's suspended this year.

Compensation back to the Falcons would be a 6th if he doesn't get reinstated by a certain date, and as much as a 2nd if he ends up here and signs a long term deal.

[blizz01]

Big time receiver - finally.  Maybe.

[Snaketoz]

The Jaguars can't lose this week!

[JaxJersey-licious]

...and a broken clock is correct twice a day! 

[Ken_FSU]

Saw an interesting post on Reddit today.

The post suggested that First Baptist used to block alcohol sales in Jacksonville on Sundays, and it became an issue when the NFL was considering bringing an expansion team to Jacksonville. As the story in the post went, First Baptist had to concede to allow alcohol sales on Sunday in order for the city to have a shot of luring the NFL.

This was all far before my time in Jax, but I'd never heard this story before.

Any truth to it, or just an urban legend?

[Charles Hunter]

Just going on memory here, but I'm pretty sure Sunday alcohol sales started in Jacksonville well before the mid-90s.

[thelakelander]

^When did Jacksonville first start trying to attract an NFL team? Was it sometime in the 70s or 80s?

I'm not sure if it is true or not but it would be pretty easy to confirm by checking through the Times Union archives at the downtown public library's special collections department.