Miami Building Collapse Impact on Fla. High Rise Market?

[Transman]

I think we should just hold off on what the cause was all people are doing is guessing.  I am a registered PE and involved in bridges over water.  It was most likely several causes the news media makes money on getting eyes on stories.  These types of things take time to sort out and usually have a series of events that lead to failure.  Also just from looking at the pictures the pool area is still standing.

The keys bridges built by Flagler are still standing and they were also built on limestone, same with the other bridges in Dade county.  These haven't fallen down.  If saltwater is present that is classified as a highly aggressive environment and more concrete must be used over the rebar.  As far a the Berkman plaza building, the building next door has the same structure frame, just because you can see the concrete structure and it is exposed to the elements doesn't mean it could fall down.  Same calculations and physics for the buildings as on the bridges over water and most people don't have issues driving over them.  I will wait for a year to read the report, just like I did on the Pedestrian walkway that collapsed.  Save some time to read something else until the report is issued.

[bl8jaxnative]

Great piece on The Dolphin in Sarasota here.  Props to the folks that put it together.

https://www.sarasotamagazine.com/home-and-real-estate/an-unlikely-heroine-steps-in-to-save-crumbling-dolphin-tower

[bl8jaxnative]

bl8jaxnative claims inspections now are all about political posturing but every engineer quoted so far says not only are these inspections appropriate but they should be done much sooner and more frequently.

It says a lot about man when they put so much effort into not understanding what someone is sharing, but twisting it into nothing that it is.  Shameful.

Let me quote myself ---> "It's not just a safety thing"

That literally means it's safety + other stuff.  Not "anything but safety".

[BridgeTroll]

Lol...JLT has a history of twisting words in articles and legislation to fit his narrative...

[jaxlongtimer]

bl8jaxnative claims inspections now are all about political posturing but every engineer quoted so far says not only are these inspections appropriate but they should be done much sooner and more frequently.

It says a lot about man when they put so much effort into not understanding what someone is sharing, but twisting it into nothing that it is.  Shameful.

Let me quote myself ---> "It's not just a safety thing"

That literally means it's safety + other stuff.  Not "anything but safety".

Correct but your implication was that politics was the primary driving force and thus the nature of my comments:

Even if the value of this is moot, they at least give the optics of doing something, of caring.

If you are such a stickler for distortions, you should also take a look at your inappropriate comparison of Miami to other cities around the US to dilute the value of being concerned about salt water.

[jaxlongtimer]

Second Miami area condo being evacuated as deemed structurally unsafe:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/north-miami-beach-building-deemed-unsafe-evacuations-ordered-n1273032

[acme54321]

This is going to tank condo prices, at least older buildings.  These people have been kicking the maintenance can down the road for decades and the bills are going to be big.

[Lunican]

This is going to tank condo prices, at least older buildings.  These people have been kicking the maintenance can down the road for decades and the bills are going to be big.

I agree. Who is going to want to sign up for massive future special assessments? Some repairs could be so intrusive that residents will have to move out while work is being done.

[MusicMan]

People sign up for massive monthly assessments, called HOA dues ....... at The Peninsula your looking at a minimum of $658 per month extra for the smallest unit I just peeked at (1151 sf ). 

[acme54321]

People sign up for massive monthly assessments, called HOA dues ....... at The Peninsula your looking at a minimum of $658 per month extra for the smallest unit I just peeked at (1151 sf ).

Yeah, that's just normal.monthly stuff for upkeep, conceirge, etc. Unless they have a major chunk of that going into a huge long term maintenance fund, someone is going to have to pony up a lot more down the road when that building needs serious work.  Condo buildings are notorious for kicking the can. 

FWIW I read that the units at the collapsed condo had all just gotten a special assessment to pay for the $15M in maintenance they they were just starting to do on it.  Ranged from something like $90k - $330k depending on the unit.  That day will come to the peninsula at one point or another. 


Also, just saw on the news that the part of the collapsed building that's still standing is going to be imploded tonight.

[Lunican]

People sign up for massive monthly assessments, called HOA dues ....... at The Peninsula your looking at a minimum of $658 per month extra for the smallest unit I just peeked at (1151 sf ). 

Imagine being assessed an addition $200,000 or so AND you had to move out for two years. Some people can afford that, but it changes the equation when trying to sell.

[Adam White]

People sign up for massive monthly assessments, called HOA dues ....... at The Peninsula your looking at a minimum of $658 per month extra for the smallest unit I just peeked at (1151 sf ). 

Imagine being assessed an addition $200,000 or so AND you had to move out for two years. Some people can afford that, but it changes the equation when trying to sell.

The first "house" we bought in the UK was a former council flat (basically, ex-government housing). It was on a housing estate that was mixed between private owners like us (technically leaseholders) and tenants. Anyway, we had to pay services charges on a monthly basis as well as pay into the major works fund. The housing association was technically responsible for the upkeep of the buildings, unless it was some sort of major works that required a lot more money - in which case, we'd all have to contribute (hence the fund).

The problem with this was the that housing association would just let small issues fester until they became big issues and then we'd all have to help foot the bill. It sucks. It kind of worked to our advantage originally, because a lot of people were selling flats on the estate because they had just found out the roofs had to be replaced in the near-ish future and that there was no money in the major works fund. So we got a decent deal on the place and the sellers put money into the fund to cover the first year or so of contributions for us.

[bl8jaxnative]

Correct but your implication was that politics was the primary driving force and thus the nature of my comments:

I would never speculate on what causes you to make the odd statements that you do.

If you are such a stickler for distortions, you should also take a look at your inappropriate comparison of Miami to other cities around the US to dilute the value of being concerned about salt water.

The issue is water.  It's salt content doesn't help but that is not the primary issue, it's the water itself.

If you take any high rise that was built on a slab, put the slab 30 - 60 feet below the water table, and - as some reports have claimed - let  water in for decades, you're going to have trouble.  The salt part adds the issue.  But they'd still be ******** if it was fresh water.


You can see this with Ford's decision to move into the old Michigan Central building.   The basement had been in water for decades.     They're going to end up pouring around as much concrete to stabilize the building as it'd take to build an equally tall sky scraper from scratch today.

[bl8jaxnative]

The HOA dues issues been around as long as these buildings.     The sort of fees involved ongoing + assessments can be shocking.  But keep in mind these things are nothing new.

[vicupstate]

The HOA dues issues been around as long as these buildings.     The sort of fees involved ongoing + assessments can be shocking.  But keep in mind these things are nothing new.

When I have been a buyer of an property with an HOA (incl. in JAX), the lender wanted to see the HOA's reserves to ascertain that a reasonable amount of the dues were set aside for long-term maintenance and not just the every year stuff. I would expect if the Peninsula fees are $650 a month at the smallest unit, that at LEAST $100 or $150 of that is set aside for long term maintenance. They also would not lend if the number of units that were not owner-occupied was above a certain threshold. For my experience it is one of the key factors in preventing buying into a problematic development.