Why council should send FBC demo decision back to HPC

[Charles Hunter]

Sorry, I guess I didn't look closely enough on G-maps.  [hangs head in shame]

Jax Business Journal: https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2020/08/03/first-baptist-church-covid-jacksonville-downtown.html?ana=e_jac_bn_breakingnews_breakingnews&j=90522077&t=Breaking%20News&mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTVRCbFltSXpNekUzWTJOaCIsInQiOiJ3YXJTQTBseU9maVZSWERUTzdvd1ZwMnoyNmxSTlRcL0xIUUdDUW90TWtidDFFUE9SK3ZrbDQ4V01qbzZyVjdzWU5VUUxpQ0oxYVpkYzNweFwvQW9XNzhpZ1Z3UHhncU1MdTRSZTBjb0tvdFN1MlRsNTJOdUs3QWJCdnorR3NRdlowIn0%3D

[geez what a cumbersome URL]

[thelakelander]

They currently own all of the garages. They can keep one and lease out spaces or sell one on the condition that it include spaces in it for them. In other words, they have options.

Agreed, they can retrofit the preschool building into something that is more inviting and open as their welcome center and heck, the building is nowhere near historic so have at it!

Remove all the above street crosswalks and make the buildings more inviting and open. Right now, the buildings at the street level don't have any visibility to the inside which in my opinion doesn't give a great feeling or provide a positive energy.

Something as simple as replacing the glass block windows, with transparent windows along Laura Street, would be transformational for that property.

[FlaBoy]

For parking, it may make sense to create that welcome center they wanted so badly on the corner of Hogan and Beaver. They have a half acre there that could host a very nice welcome center with coffee, etc., that could have a bridge (that's what they will want with their elderly population and traffic on Baver) over from the garage and another bridge into the LMA. It's a bigger property than what they were looking to demolish. They can also work to save up again or specifically ask for a gift. There would also not be a demolition cost.

They can also still try to sell the Preschool Building right on Laura which is easier to unload to a business or developer due to its office configuration rather than a large auditorium.

[marcuscnelson]

For parking, it may make sense to create that welcome center they wanted so badly on the corner of Hogan and Beaver. They have a half acre there that could host a very nice welcome center with coffee, etc., that could have a bridge (that's what they will want with their elderly population and traffic on Baver) over from the garage and another bridge into the LMA. It's a bigger property than what they were looking to demolish. They can also work to save up again or specifically ask for a gift. There would also not be a demolition cost.

They can also still try to sell the Preschool Building right on Laura which is easier to unload to a business or developer due to its office configuration rather than a large auditorium.

Doesn't the Skyway run between those blocks? Could you really build a pedestrian bridge across that without going 4 stories up? I'm not sure there's a good place at the LMA for such a bridge to connect on that side either. The Preschool Building is connected directly into the LMA too.

[Steve]

It would be really hard with the height (or lack thereof) of the buildings. That's one of the few places where they don't have a skywalk between the buildings.

[Jagsdrew]

Two things they want to get rid of/reduce
1. Number of buildings/facilities/square footage. Whether it's auditoriums or garages, the number of buildings means constant maintenance and right now with the current health of the church, this is something they don't want to continue burning money on. The member-to-square footage ratio is astronomically out of proportion. Modern day churches that bring in thousands each week operate on a way smaller footprint. They are trying to right size their facilities.
2. They want to consolidate into one block, now it's kinda two with this plan perhaps. If you walk DT around their buildings, you'll understand how big their campus is. And also, how uninviting and confusing it can be for someone that is new to the church or visiting for the first time. Where to park? What building do I go to? How many blocks away is the children's building to drop off my kids? All of this shouldn't be a barrier to worship which is why they want to consolidate and make a nice, new doormat aka Welcome Center so that it is inviting.

[vicupstate]

Except for a couple of buildings/blocks, the whole thing is largely a white elephant from a RE market standpoint.

[thelakelander]

Two things they want to get rid of/reduce
1. Number of buildings/facilities/square footage. Whether it's auditoriums or garages, the number of buildings means constant maintenance and right now with the current health of the church, this is something they don't want to continue burning money on. The member-to-square footage ratio is astronomically out of proportion. Modern day churches that bring in thousands each week operate on a way smaller footprint. They are trying to right size their facilities.

This is possible. However, it may mean ridding themselves of properties at a lower cost than they originally imagined. As a white elephant, what the view as valuable may not be viewed the same as the real market. However, if you're not paying property taxes and can't afford buildings that you've already squeezed decades of use out of, you still stand to make a pretty good profit. You also stop the financial bleeding.

2. They want to consolidate into one block, now it's kinda two with this plan perhaps. If you walk DT around their buildings, you'll understand how big their campus is. And also, how uninviting and confusing it can be for someone that is new to the church or visiting for the first time. Where to park? What building do I go to? How many blocks away is the children's building to drop off my kids? All of this shouldn't be a barrier to worship which is why they want to consolidate and make a nice, new doormat aka Welcome Center so that it is inviting.

This is still possible with the Ruth Lindsay block. It just means working out a deal with the use of one of the garages on Laura Street. The easiest would probably be the one at Laura and Beaver. Assuming the school is sold to used. as a school, that's a garage that could be shared by both since the parking demand times would be totally different.

[jaxlongtimer]

FBC should look at building a nice new shiny building at Lot J  .  With the Doro project and Shad building for "thousands" of new residents (sarcasm here), FBC can have the only church within walking distance of the stadium and we know the Jags need all the prayers they can get!

Shad could swap one of his valuable acres (thanks to $233 million plus from the City) for the entire current FBC campus.  When he is finished raking in all the dollars he can squeeze out of the stadium complex, he can then hit up the City for another few hundred million to redevelop FBC's campus.

Hoping Curry doesn't read this post as he just might take it seriously  .

[Des]

FBC should look at building a nice new shiny building at Lot J  .  With the Doro project and Shad building for "thousands" of new residents (sarcasm here), FBC can have the only church within walking distance of the stadium and we know the Jags need all the prayers they can get!

Shad could swap one of his valuable acres (thanks to $233 million plus from the City) for the entire current FBC campus.  When he is finished raking in all the dollars he can squeeze out of the stadium complex, he can then hit up the City for another few hundred million to redevelop FBC's campus.

Hoping Curry doesn't read this post as he just might take it seriously  .

I think the Hobson building is the only reason they're not pulling out of downtown entirely.

[thelakelander]

If the most recent news is correct, they've abandoned plans to spend $30 million on the Hobson block. The lion's share of that money was supposed to go to restore the Hobson Building.

[Jagsdrew]

If the most recent news is correct, they've abandoned plans to spend $30 million on the Hobson block. The lion's share of that money was supposed to go to restore the Hobson Building.

Article from the JDR: https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/first-baptist-church-abandons-plan-to-sell-most-of-downtown-campus

[itsfantastic1]

Is there any recourse to get the Independent Life building historical designation now?

Also, this example should be held up to the council as to why granting demolition permits well before construction permits are issued is terrible. FBC could've easily demolished the building AND THEN said they don't have the money and halted everything, leaving another hole in the downtown fabric.

[Steve]

Is there any recourse to get the Independent Life building historical designation now?

At present I doubt it. You'd still be doing it without FBC's blessing so it would be hard.

[Steve]

Except for a couple of buildings/blocks, the whole thing is largely a white elephant from a RE market standpoint.

No argument....but the one exception to that is parking. You can't build that parking for its present value. In some ways the biggest white elephant is now off the market: the large auditorium. Not that the Hobson sanctuary is an easy reuse, but it may be easier than a big auditorium.