Re-evaluating the Skyway

[alta]

JTA can't claim that they won't allow bikes on the Skyway because of overcrowding.

[Joe]

Out of curiousity, is there an actual demand for taking bikes on the Skyway?

I only ask this, because the system is so small. Couldn't anyone already on a bicycle get from Kings Ave to FCCJ/Convention Center faster than the actual train!

[Ocklawaha]

Joe, even if that is so, as the system expands; and sooner or later Darwin will catch Jacksonville, then we'll need to have bikes on all transit forms. Including the river taxis. As you probably know, most systems allow buses in without questions. In Dallas I rode an LRV all the way to Plano in the rush hour with a Tex-Mex man hugging his upright bike on the stairs. He got off at each station, out of the way, and resumed the position as soon as the bell rang. They're adding center cars to their trains because we were like Sandines in a can.

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

Now that BRT is back, what would the Skyway cost if we took it to Shands and Gateway Mall via Davis and other close in routes maybe including I-95 (but keeping on the surface streets where people live as much as possible). A direct link from Rosa Parks could work, or a new branch could run past the new Courthouse site and on north. What would that cost next to BRT? Can we price it? Someone get us the miles. If so I think we present that data:

"WE GOT EM BY THE GIZMO!"

So if we built Skyway instead of the high dollar BRT, and used streetcar and BRT lite to reach more of the community - for about the same bucks could we do this?



OCKLAWAHA

[9a is my backyard]

You are SO RIGHT, this time JTA is the hero of the hour and NOBODY IS WATCHING! The fact that it's never been finished, goes from no where to no where and they STILL manage to squeak out 2,000+ riders is mind numbing.

Haha, good point. 

As always, great article guys.  Thanks for again inspiring discussion on this issue and others like it.  I would love to see the Skyway succeed, but I can't help but feel pessimistic.  It seems to me like we have a hodgepodge of things that don't really fit together.  As stated in the article, the Skyway was built with state-of-the-art technology that could handle the needs of a 20-, 40-, or 60-mile long system.  Yet that system was attached to a method of transit that, as Ock says, was never designed for longer distances and is a short-haul.  Why pair the two together?  And as Lake has been saying for the longest time, the problem is that the Skyway is designed as a feeder system, only there is no wider transit system feeding it.  So is expansion the best option?  I realize the monitoring system could probably be applied to any future transit system and some kind of monitoring was required.  I also agree that expanding the Skyway would likely increase ridership.  That said, while I think the peak ridership would spike with a stadium expansion of the Skyway, I don't think the average daily usage would increase too substantially - certainly not substantially enough for the average local taxpayer who doesn't live/work downtown to want to support it.

Skyway expansion would fit nicely with a wider mass transit system.  Due to budget conditions that look like they're going to stick around for a while, Jacksonville may only get the opportunity for one big transit project.  While it's certainly good to discuss all options, I don't see Skyway expansion as an top option to address citywide transit needs.  Bring on the commuter rail!

[Ocklawaha]

As stated in the article, the Skyway was built with state-of-the-art technology that could handle the needs of a 20-, 40-, or 60-mile long system.  Yet that system was attached to a method of transit that, as Ock says, was never designed for longer distances and is a short-haul.  Why pair the two together?  And as Lake has been saying for the longest time, the problem is that the Skyway is designed as a feeder system, only there is no wider transit system feeding it.  So is expansion the best option?

New version of our Monorail by Bombardier... oh yes we can!

While it's true it was never designed as a regional type monorail, it could easily reach a much larger market by serving the city in the downtown "Squeeze". Ever notice how all the roads converge on the river in nearly the same narrow spot? The Skyway could use that as it's calling card and radiate out like a hub and spokes system. This way not only would/could it connect all of the major downtown venues - it also could be a logical transit connector. As various forms of rapid transit stretch out from the core, Commuter rail North, Southeast and Southwest; Light Rail East to the beaches; streetcar in the historic districts and downtown - with some Light Rail running as well. The Skyway becomes the "hover over all modes starfish of transit".


How Atlantic at San Marco and the FEC "should look", according to the gospel of OCK.

Well, at least that's how I see it in my crystal ball.

OCKLAWAHA

[Lunican]

How long before the current Skyway cars are expected to need to be replaced?

[9a is my backyard]

The Skyway could use that as it's calling card and radiate out like a hub and spokes system.

So which comes first, Skyway expansion or commuter rail/street car/light rail?  Ideally they would all be done together, but I don't know if local politicians have the vision or the desire to figure out a way to convince local taxpayers to fund more than one of these projects.  Realistically, how do you see this being achieved?  I don't know how much funding is available, but if Peyton was able to push through the Jacksonville Journey, maybe there's more wiggle room than I thought.

How Atlantic at San Marco and the FEC "should look", according to the gospel of OCK.

You and your crystal ball...I would love to go to Atlantic at San Marco and see that someday.  Scratch that, I would love to take the train to Atlantic at San Marco someday

[Ocklawaha]

So which comes first, Skyway expansion or commuter rail/street car/light rail?  Ideally they would all be done together, but I don't know if local politicians have the vision or the desire to figure out a way to convince local taxpayers to fund more than one of these projects.  Realistically, how do you see this being achieved?  I don't know how much funding is available, but if Peyton was able to push through the Jacksonville Journey, maybe there's more wiggle room than I thought.

The City could certainly kick it into high gear with a bit of push, but JTA is really in the drivers seat when it comes to attracting funding. FTA funds don't go by City as much as by project, so a single city can have (and often does) many projects in the process at once. Our BRT, Commuter Rail and Streetcar studies are all the pre-requirements for getting REAL DOLLARS from Washington. The Citys can often leverage land assets, work already done, and various other creative units to match the grants. I studied grantsmanship, and found that in a single small town Oklahoma Project, I was able to raise over 1 Million dollars within 5-6 months through a whole bunch of sources. OKDOT - New Signs, Logan County - co-op on pavement - Kingfisher County (yes our tiny town sat on the line) beautification - OK Natural Resources for a lake - USDI pond program, etc, etc... so it just amounts to how creative and energized your grants people are.

We have the opportunity for another venture as well, but I own it. I'm willing to swap going under contract to CITY or JTA for the rights, but it involves electric transit and alternate fuels, and a method where our transit could be PRE-PAID. But Mr. Blaylock has not called me back...

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

At this point, it looks like concrete material is one of the main things needed for skyway expansion.  Perhaps we can get a Mayor in need of a legacy project to get his family business to donate some concrete for public use?

[tufsu1]

At this point, it looks like concrete material is one of the main things needed for skyway expansion.  Perhaps we can get a Mayor in need of a legacy project to get his family business to donate some concrete for public use?

do you have someone in mind Lake 

[9a is my backyard]

But Mr. Blaylock has not called me back...

Has JTA given any response/reaction to your plans?  It seems like there's been a noticeable shift in JTA's thinking, but I don't know if that's actually true.

At this point, it looks like concrete material is one of the main things needed for skyway expansion.  Perhaps we can get a Mayor in need of a legacy project to get his family business to donate some concrete for public use?

Ladies and gentlemen, the John Peyton Skyway!

[Ocklawaha]

Here is another image, how about this Mr. Jones? Gateway Mall Future? Where Light Rail meets Skyway - meets Bus!



OCKLAWAHA

[jeh1980]

At this point, it looks like concrete material is one of the main things needed for skyway expansion.  Perhaps we can get a Mayor in need of a legacy project to get his family business to donate some concrete for public use?
[/quote]

Ladies and gentlemen, the John Peyton Skyway!
[/quote]
The John Peyton Skyway. That very funny. Very funny  .

[brainstormer]

While we are naming things, shouldn't we also have the "Peyton-Duval County Courthouse?"