Re-evaluating the Skyway

[heights unknown]

Superb article yes!  Then if ridership is low because of a quiet downtown (and high attendance events point to this fact as the skyway is busy during football season, special events in metro park, coliseum etc.), then it makes sense to expand it out to increase ridership and profit dollars.  Infrastructure is already in place relative to the operational support aspects (operations center, etc.) which is high tech and has or is paying for itself and the skyway in a sense.  We can't rely on hoping that a busy downtown will one day sprout up and then the skyway is a success.  We must plan prudently and smartly to expand it and market/promote it metro wide in order to increase ridership and support profit increase.

Heights Unknown

[Coolyfett]

I was in Jacksonville Monday for a funeral, Got on the Skyway and they had a new brochure effective Sept 2008.

The expansion down Bay Street needs to happen!!! Wow how could they miss all those spots. Just looking at the map now I see perfect locations for 3 stations

1. Main Street & Bay - Main Street Station - access to The Landing, The Florida Theater, The Yates Building, Suntrust, BOA Tower, Modis Building & Jacksonville Regional Chamber of Commerce.

2. Market & Bay - Riverfront Station - access to Court House Annex, County Courthouse, Hyatt Regency Hotel, Berkman Plazas & Police Memorial Building

3 Marsh & Bay - Shipyard Station - access to just Maxwell House right now.

Further east would put the Skyway right in the Sports Complex.

I really can't figure out why they would leave this section off, but build to the King Avenue Station. # 1 & 2 are way more important then what they are building at Kings Avenue Station. They need to finish it!

[thelakelander]

More skyway talk:

I overheard an interesting converstation on the Skyway during the Jazz Fest.  A group of suburbanites saying the following:

- Although they had lived in Jax for a few years, it was the first time they had used the Skyway.

- "I would ride it to work, if it went somewhere." This guy mentioned he worked at Fidelity on Riverside Avenue.

- It loses money because JTA gave up on it.  If anything they should at least extend it to the stadium.

- A constant apples to apples comparison with St. Louis light rail, Chicago's El and NYC's Subway.

I wonder if this is the general outlook towards the skyway in Jacksonville?

[adamh0903]

More skyway talk:

I overheard an interesting converstation on the Skyway during the Jazz Fest.  A group of suburbanites saying the following:

- Although they had lived in Jax for a few years, it was the first time they had used the Skyway.

- "I would ride it to work, if it went somewhere." This guy mentioned he worked at Fidelity on Riverside Avenue.

- It loses money because JTA gave up on it.  If anything they should at least extend it to the stadium.

- A constant apples to apples comparison with St. Louis light rail, Chicago's El and NYC's Subway.

I wonder if this is the general outlook towards the skyway in Jacksonville?

Yes...
From a suburbanite.

Although it wasn't my first time on the skyway, (it was my first time to wait in line) there really is no reason to use it coming from a suburban area. If I have to drive 25 miles to a station, I might as well drive the .3 to my destination.

[brainstormer]

Of course it is Lake!  Haven't we been arguing for a couple years now that everyone wishes it connected the people with the destinations instead of just destination to parking garage.  I live in Springfield and so many of my neighbors work downtown, Riverside or on the Southbank.  Everyone of them in past conversations have said they would love to ride it to work everyday if they could.  We all would have taken it to Jazz Fest this past weekend if there was a station that came a little farther into Springfield.  As it is now, we drove because with the possibility of rain the 1 mile walk to Rosa Parks didn't sound like a good idea.  We would take it to RAM any day over driving, but we are forced to drive.  The "We would have..." examples are endless but as it sits now there is no access to where people live and other high volume destinations.

[Steve]

I rode it as well Sunday, and yes, I heard some crazytalk myself.  The problem is that the average person in Jacksonville doesn't understand two things:

1. Not a single mass transit system in America turns a profit.
2.  It is not practical to run the skyway to Normandy, the Avenues, or the Airport.

[Ocklawaha]

Last but certainly not least, the DAMN thing DOESN'T cost $90 Million a mile. To expand it would be somewhere close to a quality LRT system.

Also as a Monorail, we could use it's elevation to clear the downtown streets of many transit and private vehicles. All it needs is a link in San Marco with Amtrak Corridor Service on the FEC RR.

To the east it SHOULD go to the Stadium or at least Randolph, where it ought to connect with streetcars for Gateway Plaza and bus service into Arlington, Atlantic Blvd and Arlington Expressway. Planting another JTA parking garage at a new garage exit at the foot of the Matthews and Hart, (ONE WE COULD GET TO WITHOUT FLYING OVER A FREEWAY RAILING) Inbound Commuters could really use it.

North into Springfield perhaps above and west of Hogans Creek to Shands, and into Riverside to BCBS and Fidelity.

Plug this in to a new downtown FREE PARKING program for merchants, with time restriction. Transfer the parking meter fees to the garages throughout downtown using audited meter income block by block to make it fair. Garages with a much heavier use, next to former meter spots that were heavy sould pay more per month then the lost garage on the Southbank (for example). Consider this as a congestion pricing fee + 15% a month for Skyway and Streetcar.

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

Although it wasn't my first time on the skyway, (it was my first time to wait in line) there really is no reason to use it coming from a suburban area. If I have to drive 25 miles to a station, I might as well drive the .3 to my destination.

I really don't want to rehash all my objections again to the $ky-high-way here.  One can go read any of about a dozen or more threads on this boondoggle elsewhere to see all sides to this debate.

But, for expediency, I would like to emphasize the the point made in the quote above is exactly one I have made.  The proponents just don't want to hear this.

I will also add that the constant harping about the $ky-high-way not connecting the proper dots is for several reasons, the least of which is, due to it monster size and street killing abilities, you can't just take it anywhere and into any neighborhood.  As such, it isn't the BEST OPTION for connecting this city.  Financially, the proponents think they can have this and all the other mass transit options and don't see the political and financial trade-offs that make this dream most unlikely.  $ky-high-way proponents aren't interested in picking the very best options to the $ky-high-way and making those the future.  The also want to salvage this admitted pork barrel wreck at any expense claiming that our existing investment makes it qualify as one of the better options.  I and lot of others aren't buying it.  Let the discussion continue.....

[Ocklawaha]

Although it wasn't my first time on the skyway, (it was my first time to wait in line) there really is no reason to use it coming from a suburban area. If I have to drive 25 miles to a station, I might as well drive the .3 to my destination.

But, for expediency, I would like to emphasize the the point made in the quote above is exactly one I have made.  The proponents just don't want to hear this.

Which is exactly what it's designed to do, it's a downtown "people mover" and NOT regional mass transit. The two cities that actually finished theirs have great ridership... But then they go somewhere. With us, if your not living by Hemming Plaza and traveling to the Omni, or Ruth's Chris, your SOL.

I will also add that the constant harping about the $ky-high-way not connecting the proper dots is for several reasons, the least of which is, due to it monster size and street killing abilities, you can't just take it anywhere and into any neighborhood.  As such, it isn't the BEST OPTION for connecting this city.  Financially, the proponents think they can have this and all the other mass transit options and don't see the political and financial trade-offs that make this dream most unlikely.  $ky-high-way proponents aren't interested in picking the very best options to the $ky-high-way and making those the future.  The also want to salvage this admitted pork barrel wreck at any expense claiming that our existing investment makes it qualify as one of the better options.  I and lot of others aren't buying it.  Let the discussion continue.....

Monster size? No, the expanded sections should be as thin and sleek as the Walt Disney system, in fact based on some track adjustment, two trains per line Stadium-Atlantic Av San Marco, and Springfield - Jacksonville Terminal, a Riverside Line could duck in and out of Central Station between trains. This would equal 5 working trains daily, and the extensions could be single track.

Monorails are not street killers as they should be above the street.

Now is the time to finish it using our previous investment as leverage on Federal Stimulus money. Frankly like it or not, even hate it if you will, but THAT MONEY is going to be spent on a host of Transit projects, and I'd rather they be ours instead of Daytons, Orlandos, Fresno's, or Milwaukee's.


OCKLAWAHA
The ORIGINAL Nemesis of the Skyway.

[CrysG]

[/quote]

. If I have to drive 25 miles to a station, I might as well drive the .3 to my destination.

I used to drive from Flemming Island to the Convention Center, hop on the sky way and ride to Hemming Plaza to go to work at Ed Ball building. Reason, cost. Skyway was about $27a month and the preferred parking solution for my employer.

On a side note since I had to take the skyway if it ever broke down all I had to say to my boss was the skyway froze with us on it.....that worked out a handful of times that a group was late from lunch....Blame the Skyway.

[Ocklawaha]

On a side note since I had to take the skyway if it ever broke down all I had to say to my boss was the skyway froze with us on it.....that worked out a handful of times that a group was late from lunch....Blame the Skyway.

I love that one man, reminds me of working the USPS trucks in OKC. I lived about as far from town as you, in a little prairie community. Anytime I was late I'd tell our dumbass boss it was that darn morning freight train. ALWAYS WORKED! The stupid boss didn't know the railroad to our little town (joint Rock Island and Santa Fe) had been abandoned in 1932! This guy didn't even know the Rock Island had vanished in the early 1980's. They don't teach history anymore! LOL!  I guess my discription of it was enough to sell it to them.

OCKLAWAHA

[Steve]

Although it wasn't my first time on the skyway, (it was my first time to wait in line) there really is no reason to use it coming from a suburban area. If I have to drive 25 miles to a station, I might as well drive the .3 to my destination.

I really don't want to rehash all my objections again to the $ky-high-way here.  One can go read any of about a dozen or more threads on this boondoggle elsewhere to see all sides to this debate.

But, for expediency, I would like to emphasize the the point made in the quote above is exactly one I have made.  The proponents just don't want to hear this.

I am a proponent, and I completely agree with the above.  I think some of your points are valid, but some are with the implementation, not the technology.  I'm still not sure why JTA built a roadway, then put a beam down the center of it, after they switched to the Monorail technology in 1994.  At that point, the only section that was built was from Central to Convention Center.  If they did it Disney Style, it would have been far cheaper.  This decision to me rests squarely on JTA's shoulders.  I also don't agree with an expansion without at least one rail based transit mode extending to the suburbs.  Once that happens, then I would endorse it.

[Shwaz]

I also don't agree with an expansion without at least one rail based transit mode extending to the suburbs.  Once that happens, then I would endorse it.

I've learned through discussion's on MetroJacksonville that the skyway is not the solution for long haul commuter traffic to & from the suburbs and that light-rail is the solution. However, I would still like to see some extensions added immediately.

The maintenance hub for the skyway  is in Riverside / Brooklyn. It's literally 1.5 miles to Fidelity or 5 points giving an option to the Riverside / Avondale neighborhood's. Many people who live in the neighborhood’s work & play downtown and imo would give an immediate boost to the daily rider number’s.

I would also like to see a stadium extension added because it’s easily the most requested stop. Jacksonvillian’s have been pining over this for years and if built they would obviously take advantage of the service. Even if only 10K people used it for Jag’s games alone it would increase ridership by 100K for the year. Charge more on game day and pay for the extension with the immediate revenue.

[Lucasjj]

Even if only 10K people used it for Jag’s games alone it would increase ridership by 100K for the year. Charge more on game day and pay for the extension with the immediate revenue.

That is what they do in Boston for Patriots game. You can take the rail out to Foxborough, but it is a flat fee of $20 or $25, not the standard fare.

[thelakelander]

^$20 a person?