Get Rid of Beg Buttons - COVID19

[bl8jaxnative]

Any chance that this COVID19 crap will create an impetus to get rid of beg buttons?   

[Charles Hunter]

Huh?

[JBTripper]

Beg buttons are the buttons you push to activate pedestrian crossing signals. They're a high-touch surface that you don't want to be touching during a global pandemic, and the thinking is they somehow discourage walking by prioritizing vehicle traffic over pedestrian traffic. Seems overblown to me. There are sensors in the pavement that activate traffic signals for cars, and there are buttons that activate traffic signals for pedestrians. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Charles Hunter]

Shows you how much I know. I though he met Go Fund Me links.

You are not alone ... and MJ doesn't have those.
Wonder what it would cost to remove them all? And the signals would have to be re-timed to add pedestrian phases to each cycle of each signal.

[Steve]

It seems like you could create a no-touch version of the "Beg Buttons" by like waving a hand underneath a sensor or something.

I see why they are there - some intersections don't make sense to make every green phase long enough for a pedestrian to cross every single time. Think San Jose Blvd in southern Mandarin - a lightly used sidestreet would have to have a green long enough for a pedestrian to cross San Jose every time (6 lane divided highway with turn lanes). Likely not good for traffic.

On the other hand, intersections in the urban core should have these removed, and the signals timed to allow a pedestrian crossing every time - there's a lot more pedestrians (thus more people touching buttons) and the streets generally are narrower so timing wouldn't be affected much.

You could then phase in some sort of "hand wave" device in the suburbs - plus a button may go a week without being pressed anyway so it's less of a risk.

[jaxlongtimer]

It seems like you could create a no-touch version of the "Beg Buttons" by like waving a hand underneath a sensor or something.

There is at least one intersection in Jacksonville with some type of sensor.  It's at the corner of San Jose and Haley Road, across from Etz Chaim Synagogue.  As an Orthodox Jewish congregation, their members are not allowed to hit a button on the Sabbath to trigger the pedestrian crossing.

Tragically, a woman was killed and her daughter severely injured there in 2013.  Not hitting the button at the time may have been a contributing factor (note, the driver was cited and it was his second time killing a pedestrian on San Jose within a short time).

Below is an excerpt of one article relating to the incident.  The comment about hitting the buttons to get extra crossing time is an issue everywhere as most people do not know that is an advantage of the buttons and FDOT doesn't publicize it well, if at all.  Also, if you don't use the buttons, you don't get the walk timer countdown clock so you have no idea how much time you do have to cross.

The blame, Patacca said, might not go entirely to Fortunato but to the design of the intersection at San Jose Boulevard and Haley Road. If they pushed the walk button, the Orthodox Jewish families crossing the street would have had about 50 seconds, according to the state Department of Transportation. Because of the Jewish law, they couldn't push the button, so they had about 11 seconds to cross eight lanes.

At the time, Orthodox Jewish families walking across the street didn't know how many seconds they had. After the incident, the state department installed a camera sensor that activates the walking signal automatically.

https://www.jacksonville.com/article/20150914/NEWS/801253120

[jaxjags]

I saw at the Mayo Clinic photoelectric beams you pass through to activate cross walk flashing lights. You don't even realize they are there, so it is quite passive.

[Steve]

Interesting - didn't know they were already in use (or about the horrible incident at the Synagogue.

If that's the case, remove them entirely in the urban core (just activate the ped crossing every time, and retrofit all of the suburban crosswalks over a period of time.

[Peter Griffin]

Aren't the vast majority of intersections downtown already button-free?

[Steve]

Aren't the vast majority of intersections downtown already button-free?

Downtown yes, with some exceptions like the intersections at the base of the bridges. They should do the same in neighborhoods like Riverside, Avondale, Murray Hill, San Marco, Springfield, Durkeeville, Mixon Town, etc. Basically, any neighborhood that is pedestrian oriented.

[jaxlongtimer]

FDOT/City should tie pedestrian crossing improvements with their "intelligent transportation" technology they keep saying is on the way.  Really shouldn't be a stretch in that situation.

Between cameras, sensors and software, they will be able to read our minds and monitor our movements at all times  .  Big Brother is here!

[Bill Hoff]

Aren't the vast majority of intersections downtown already button-free?

Downtown yes, with some exceptions like the intersections at the base of the bridges. They should do the same in neighborhoods like Riverside, Avondale, Murray Hill, San Marco, Springfield, Durkeeville, Mixon Town, etc. Basically, any neighborhood that is pedestrian oriented.

Question: can a neighborhood be pedestrian oriented without sidewalks? I love Murray Hill, but you're walking in the road.

[blizz01]

I was thinking about all of the buttons and touching associated with getting gas...

[Josh]

The pandemic will definitely expedite the transition to contactless payments. The first time I visited Publix after they had their plexiglass screens up in front of the cashiers, I saw that the POS systems were now accepting NFC payments for the first time.

Gas stations have been dragging their feet on updating their credit card systems the most of all retail verticals, so hopefully this forces their hand even more than the threat of being held liable for fraud. Still have the touch the damn pumps though 

[aubureck]

I had no idea that's what these sensors were called until reading this article but here's an interesting article from Streets Blog about what some cities are doing to deal with these sensors.  The article is about three weeks old now.

https://cal.streetsblog.org/2020/04/01/stop-touching-pedestrian-beg-buttons/

I just found an additional article from this week about some of the challenges being faced in Massachusetts related to deactivating the BEG buttons, this includes education for pedestrians at the interestection and accessibility issues for visually-impaired pedestrians who need an audible signal.  It seems we're at the beginning of an interesting conversation regarding BEG buttons, accessibility, and the relationship between pedestrians and automobiles

https://mass.streetsblog.org/2020/04/21/mixed-signals-beg-buttons-and-the-pandemic/