Get Rid of Beg Buttons - COVID19

[Steve]

Hemming Park's intersections could be a model, though the "do I push the button or not thing" is a challenge, agreed.

Thankfully we shouldn't have as much of an issue with FDOT, as more and more of the urban core roads are not FDOT roads. We won't (nor should we) get rid of them all, but the city could do this with all of their roads

[tufsu1]

If that's the case, remove them entirely in the urban core (just activate the ped crossing every time, and retrofit all of the suburban crosswalks over a period of time.

all of the signals downtown have pre-timed phases which include peds - no beg buttons

[Steve]

If that's the case, remove them entirely in the urban core (just activate the ped crossing every time, and retrofit all of the suburban crosswalks over a period of time.

all of the signals downtown have pre-timed phases which include peds - no beg buttons

When I said Urban Core, I was referring to not just downtown but neighborhoods like Riverside, Springfield, etc.

[bl8jaxnative]

If that's the case, remove them entirely in the urban core (just activate the ped crossing every time, and retrofit all of the suburban crosswalks over a period of time.

all of the signals downtown have pre-timed phases which include peds - no beg buttons

No, they do not.

[bl8jaxnative]

There are sensors in the pavement that activate traffic signals for cars, and there are buttons that activate traffic signals for pedestrians. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

2 different paradigms.

The light will automatically detect the car and change for it. The driver is obligated to do nothing.

For the pedestrian, the light will only change if the pedestrian does something.  Why?   There's always pedestrians around downtown.  Why treat them differently? 

[heights unknown]

Get rid of Bed Bugs...

[Steve]

If that's the case, remove them entirely in the urban core (just activate the ped crossing every time, and retrofit all of the suburban crosswalks over a period of time.

all of the signals downtown have pre-timed phases which include peds - no beg buttons

No, they do not.

With the example of a handful around the bridge ramps, they absolutely do.

The other possible exception is the sports complex. Otherwise they all do.

[bl8jaxnative]

I'm always amazed ( and slightly annoyed ) to the degree of confidence humans will speak of things they do not know.

Downtown is full of traffic lights that do not have a pedestrian walk cycle unless the beg button is pressed.  This has been the case for years and years and years and years and years and years and years and years and years.

This means as pedestrians are walking and have a green light, they have a do not walk sign.  They do not know how long they have left to cross.   It forces them to do one of 2 things :

a) Keep walking and hope they make it across before cross traffic gets a green.
b) Stop, hit the beg button, and wait for the remainder of that cycle and the entire cross traffic to cycle to walk.

[Steve]

I'm always amazed ( and slightly annoyed ) to the degree of confidence humans will speak of things they do not know.

Downtown is full of traffic lights that do not have a pedestrian walk cycle unless the beg button is pressed.  This has been the case for years and years and years and years and years and years and years and years and years.

This means as pedestrians are walking and have a green light, they have a do not walk sign.  They do not know how long they have left to cross.   It forces them to do one of 2 things :

a) Keep walking and hope they make it across before cross traffic gets a green.
b) Stop, hit the beg button, and wait for the remainder of that cycle and the entire cross traffic to cycle to walk.

Aside from the base of the bridges and the sports complex area, please name one.

Hemming Park doesn't count. The buttons are there for ADA accessibility, but the pedestrian signal is activated automatically every time.

[Peter Griffin]

I love how pompous people get about these kinda things, too. There's swaths of blocks of residential areas in Jacksonville which don't have ANY sidewalk, yet people are saying the city SHOULD remove... the pedestrian crosswalk buttons? In favor of a more expensive solution? Based on absolutely zero evidence of its effectiveness in combating the spread of a novel virus? In a city with relatively minimal pedestrian traffic? Where pedestrian disobey the pedestrian signals frequently?

Many many things are far higher up on the priority list than THIS

[tufsu1]

I'm always amazed ( and slightly annoyed ) to the degree of confidence humans will speak of things they do not know.

yes....this downtown resident and transportation planner does not know of what he speaks.

Trust me - there are automatic pedestrian recall signals corresponding with the auto phases on just about every signal in the downtown core. Now, you would be correct that most do not have ped countdown heads. In fact, the downtown area is behind other parts of town in implementing these.

[jaxlongtimer]

I love how pompous people get about these kinda things, too. There's swaths of blocks of residential areas in Jacksonville which don't have ANY sidewalk, yet people are saying the city SHOULD remove... the pedestrian crosswalk buttons? In favor of a more expensive solution? Based on absolutely zero evidence of its effectiveness in combating the spread of a novel virus? In a city with relatively minimal pedestrian traffic? Where pedestrian disobey the pedestrian signals frequently?

Many many things are far higher up on the priority list than THIS

Oh boy!  Not taking sides here (maybe a little) but can't resist answering your challenge by listing higher priorities in Jax:  tearing down the Landing ($20 mil +/-), tearing down City Hall & Courthouse (a few million more), tearing down the Hart Bridge Ramps ($35 to 50 million), building Lot J out ($233 million), building a questionable innovation corridor with automated vehicles ($50 million +/-), deepening the port with questionable economic benefits and environmental impacts ($700 million +), manipulating the sale of JEA ($10 million +/- and counting), singling out developers and contractors with a waiver of building and other fees ($9 million)...  A city with one of the highest pedestrian death rates, low walk-ability ratings and crumbling schools, not so much  .

[Peter Griffin]

I love how pompous people get about these kinda things, too. There's swaths of blocks of residential areas in Jacksonville which don't have ANY sidewalk, yet people are saying the city SHOULD remove... the pedestrian crosswalk buttons? In favor of a more expensive solution? Based on absolutely zero evidence of its effectiveness in combating the spread of a novel virus? In a city with relatively minimal pedestrian traffic? Where pedestrian disobey the pedestrian signals frequently?

Many many things are far higher up on the priority list than THIS

Oh boy!  Not taking sides here (maybe a little) but can't resist answering your challenge by listing higher priorities in Jax:  tearing down the Landing ($20 mil +/-), tearing down City Hall & Courthouse (a few million more), tearing down the Hart Bridge Ramps ($35 to 50 million), building Lot J out ($233 million), building a questionable innovation corridor with automated vehicles ($50 million +/-), deepening the port with questionable economic benefits and environmental impacts ($700 million +), manipulating the sale of JEA ($10 million +/- and counting), singling out developers and contractors with a waiver of building and other fees ($9 million)...  A city with one of the highest pedestrian death rates, low walk-ability ratings and crumbling schools, not so much  .

You wrote a whole lot of words to say nothing about my post. I'm saying the beg buttons are a silly ask when we don't even have sidewalks in a lot of areas, you've shifted the conversation...to...say...that Jacksonville has spent money on other projects?

You haven't refuted my point at all, you've just bellyached about the project funding you don't like in Jax, just like almost every. other. poster. on. this. forum.

[JPalmer]

I know from many years of experience at the BK/FNF/FIS crossing if you hit the button to cross Riverside the timer will give you 25+ seconds.  But if the light changes just for the traffic, it will only be 12-15 seconds at the most.   They did add audio and visual alerts for pedestrians, but again it takes someone hitting the button to initiate that cycle.

[jaxlongtimer]

You wrote a whole lot of words to say nothing about my post. I'm saying the beg buttons are a silly ask when we don't even have sidewalks in a lot of areas, you've shifted the conversation...to...say...that Jacksonville has spent money on other projects?

You haven't refuted my point at all, you've just bellyached about the project funding you don't like in Jax, just like almost every. other. poster. on. this. forum.

Well, for some reason, you missed my entire point of responding to your point about priorities for Jacksonville.  Let me connect the dots for you.

Your point appears to be that we should be spending taxpayer dollars on more important things than pedestrian crosswalk technologies, implying such dollars are not readily available.

In response, I have given examples of our City repeatedly spending hundreds of millions of taxpayer's dollars on projects benefiting only special interests, of questionable value and/or unrealistically chasing pots of gold at ends of rainbows rather than spending dollars on real world projects that effect thousands of citizens' quality of life on a daily basis, such as the subject at hand.

To add, I am also suggesting that's why we have "swaths of blocks of residential areas in Jacksonville which don't have ANY sidewalk.. " as you noted.  And, that lack of sidewalks you reference may also be why we have "relatively minimum pedestrian traffic."