Springfield's impact on other neighborhoods

[Kerry]

Springfield would only be considered a success story in Jacksonville.  I've lived in Jax for 17 years and Springfield is barely more than it was back then.

Then you haven't been to Springfield in 17 years. The commercial was not happening whatsoever for most of that time. Now it is. That's a GIANT improvement.

Again, Springfield is only a success story in Jax.  No other city in America moves this slow at revitalization.  I have seen entire cities turn around fast than Springfield has.

That's wonderful.

Would I like to see Springfield's turnaround go faster? Yes. Has it been slow? Yes. Does it mean it's not a reason to be happy for the neighborhood and our city? No.

But it IS a reason to not be happy.  It is a lie.  Springfield can't even sustain its own growth let alone having positive spill-over affects on adjacent areas.  Hell, a more realistic story would be "Lackluster Development In Springfield Delaying Reurbanization of Otherhaving.

[Steve]

Springfield would only be considered a success story in Jacksonville.  I've lived in Jax for 17 years and Springfield is barely more than it was back then.

Then you haven't been to Springfield in 17 years. The commercial was not happening whatsoever for most of that time. Now it is. That's a GIANT improvement.

Again, Springfield is only a success story in Jax.  No other city in America moves this slow at revitalization.  I have seen entire cities turn around fast than Springfield has.

That's wonderful.

Would I like to see Springfield's turnaround go faster? Yes. Has it been slow? Yes. Does it mean it's not a reason to be happy for the neighborhood and our city? No.

But it IS a reason to not be happy.  It is a lie.  Springfield can't even sustain its own growth let alone having positive spill-over affects on adjacent areas.  Hell, a more realistic story would be "Lackluster Development In Springfield Delaying Reurbanization of Otherhaving.

How have they not sustained their growth?

Look, I'm the first to say that DVI does too much cheerleading and not enough looking in the mirror. I definitely don't think that Springfield folks are content to sit back and say, "everything is great"

[Kerry]

What do you mean how?  20+ years and they are still in the starting gate.  It is basically a Ponzi scheme where hype is still the main driver.  Businesses are opening/moving to Springfield for what it can become, not what it already is, and most of those are replacing business that already tried that strategy - and closed.

[Peter Griffin]

"I can't see any improvement, so there is none"

Ok, pal

[Kerry]

"I can't see any improvement, so there is none"

Ok, pal

Define improvement.

[Peter Griffin]

"I can't see any improvement, so there is none"

Ok, pal

Define improvement.

There is quality renovated housing in the area, there are destination restaurants and venues which bring in outsiders to the area, there are public art installations and an improved/updated streetscape along Main St, significant sections of blighted areas are improved, adaptive reuse and infill projects are in place and programmed. 

Can't see it if you don't visit!

[Papa33]

For three school years from 2012-2015, every day, I drove my oldest from Lakewood, over the Main Street Bridge and up Main Street to Kirby Smith Middle.  After four year hiatus, I'm doing it again, everyday, with my youngest.  It is simply not true to say there has been no improvement.  The improvement is in everything that Peter Griffin has posted, no only on Main Street, but down other streets.  Fewer boarded up houses, clusters of renovated houses throughout that are being cared for and lived in.

[Papa33]

Another thing.  Many more joggers and walkers up and down Main Street at 7:45 in the morning.

[Kerry]

Screw it - you want to believe Springfield is making none, little, some, or amazing progress have at it.

[Steve]

"I can't see any improvement, so there is none"

Ok, pal

Define improvement.

There is quality renovated housing in the area, there are destination restaurants and venues which bring in outsiders to the area, there are public art installations and an improved/updated streetscape along Main St, significant sections of blighted areas are improved, adaptive reuse and infill projects are in place and programmed. 

Can't see it if you don't visit!

I think that's a pretty good definition of "improvement".

Look, if we want to argue that the neighborhood isn't Avondale, San Marco, or any of 1,000 neighborhoods in the Utopian Society the Gods refer to as "Oklahoma City", I'll go with you. The revitalization job isn't done, though I'd love to know what neighborhood IS done. I'll also agree this should have taken WAY less time than it did. Many places that did revitalize did slow/stop during the housing crisis (and in Springfield there needed to be more oversight as to some of the games that were being played that artificially inflated housing prices which definitely set the neighborhood back years).

But to say there's been no improvement or that the neighborhood is somehow not better than it was 5 years ago is just incorrect.

[Steve]

Screw it - you want to believe Springfield is making none, little, some, or amazing progress have at it.

Do you HONESTLY believe the neighborhood isn't better than it was 5 years ago?

[Tacachale]

What do you mean how?  20+ years and they are still in the starting gate.  It is basically a Ponzi scheme where hype is still the main driver.  Businesses are opening/moving to Springfield for what it can become, not what it already is, and most of those are replacing business that already tried that strategy - and closed.

Demonstrably untrue. There are obviously more businesses open on Main Street today than there were just 3 or 4 years ago. It's also not true that they're moving there due to "hype". We did a walking tour of the neighborhood Saturday morning and visited or passed by numerous businesses that were bustling even at that time. It's also plain to see that there's more rehab work and new construction in Springfield now than there likely ever has been in most folks' living memory.

[Peter Griffin]

Screw it - you want to believe Springfield is making none, little, some, or amazing progress have at it.

Read: "I was proven wrong, but refuse to accept that I was wrong, so I'll just pretend I am still right!"

Humble pie tastes fantastic once you get used to the taste.

[Kerry]

Screw it - you want to believe Springfield is making none, little, some, or amazing progress have at it.

Read: "I was proven wrong, but refuse to accept that I was wrong, so I'll just pretend I am still right!"

Humble pie tastes fantastic once you get used to the taste.

Not at all.  My bar just isn't set as low as your bar is.  If you are happy with the amazing progress of Springfield who am I to say you shouldn't be.  I have the benefit of traveling the country almost every week so my frame of reference isn't Springfield 2020 vs Springfield 2010 vs Springfield 1990.  It is looking at the rate of change of Springfield as it compares to the rate of change across a collection of places I travel to.

And maybe that is the root cause of the issue of perception.  You think Springfield's competition is against Springfield of 1990, and I think Springfield's competition, and by extension all of Jax, is our peer cities today.

If your motto is "Hey, we're better today than we were 10 years ago" then good luck with that.  The rest of the world doesn't see it that way.

[Tacachale]

Screw it - you want to believe Springfield is making none, little, some, or amazing progress have at it.

Read: "I was proven wrong, but refuse to accept that I was wrong, so I'll just pretend I am still right!"

Humble pie tastes fantastic once you get used to the taste.

Not at all.  My bar just isn't set as low as your bar is.  If you are happy with the amazing progress of Springfield who am I to say you shouldn't be.  I have the benefit of traveling the country almost every week so my frame of reference isn't Springfield 2020 vs Springfield 2010 vs Springfield 1990.  It is looking at the rate of change of Springfield as it compares to the rate of change across a collection of places I travel to.

And maybe that is the root cause of the issue of perception.  You think Springfield's competition is against Springfield of 1990, and I think Springfield's competition, and by extension all of Jax, is our peer cities today.

If your motto is "Hey, we're better today than we were 10 years ago" then good luck with that.  The rest of the world doesn't see it that way.

Or at least Kerry doesn't.