The Ford on Bay

[MusicMan]

Let's stop comparing Miami to Jacksonville.That's like comparing bananas to sour oranges!

Didn't some dude pay $25 million for a one acre waterfront parcel in Brikell 2 years ago?

[heights unknown]

Interesting. It's likely better to be in a bubble with 100k downtown residents already in hand than headed into a recession with 5k spread across 4 square miles and still having to subsidize stick frame garden style apartments.

LOLOL

[heights unknown]

Let's stop comparing Miami to Jacksonville.That's like comparing bananas to sour oranges!

Didn't some dude pay $25 million for a one acre waterfront parcel in Brikell 2 years ago?

Yeah, there's no comparison, none. Miami has the 3rd densest skyline in the nation for a city of close to 500k.

[thelakelander]

Pretty crazy that the skylines were comparable in the 1980s. Same as Jax and Charlotte in the 1990s and Jax and Nashville in early 2000s. Even Orlando, which had a significantly smaller skyline in 1995, looks dramatically different. In Jax, not much has changed since the 1990s completion of the BOA Tower. After missing the fruits of two historic urban real estate boom periods in the first 20 years of the 2000s, the comparable list is looking pretty thin. So we're at a point where places much smaller 30 years ago are now in our peer group.

[thelakelander]

Let's stop comparing Miami to Jacksonville.That's like comparing bananas to sour oranges!

Didn't some dude pay $25 million for a one acre waterfront parcel in Brikell 2 years ago?

Yeah, there's no comparison, none. Miami has the 3rd densest skyline in the nation for a city of close to 500k.

There's close to 6 million in that MSA now and it's an international tourism destination. Yeah, it's in a different tier now. No doubt.

[jaxjags]

Question - With the zoning height restrictions along the river could the Ford on Bay buildings be much higher or not?

[Steve]

Question - With the zoning height restrictions along the river could the Ford on Bay buildings be much higher or not?

Yes. The Overlay does discuss the stepping up in height as you get away from the river, but certainly it could be taller than 5 floors.

[Kerry]

It is probably 5 floors for the same reason almost every other apartment building stops at 5 floors.  The fire codes change when you go above 5 floors.  It takes a lot of floors to cover the cost difference and there isn't demand for that many.

[Florida Power And Light]

Five Floor is plenty.
Why alter/ further clutter visual scenery/ landscape with more concrete, sky view and light blocked? Plenty of " Density/ Vibrancy".( Other than $$$$)

[Peter Griffin]

It is probably 5 floors for the same reason almost every other apartment building stops at 5 floors.  The fire codes change when you go above 5 floors.  It takes a lot of floors to cover the cost difference and there isn't demand for that many.

Some people on here seem to forget that a project ought to be profitable after construction. We got some people in here saying we ought to build skyscrapers (regardless of their profitability) just to... impress out-of-town investors? That kind of idea sounds like buying a new Cadillac because you wanna show off how good your MLM is doing. Ineffective and unsustainable, all for the sake of TALL BUILDING

[thelakelander]

Which is why it is pretty foolish to blow up publicly owned skyscrapers with no real redevelopment plan in place. That's density, you'll likely never get back. You'd be better off giving away the building as the public incentive to help make redevelopment numbers work, as opposed to spending millions to raze and then millions more to replace it with a five story stick frame structure.

[Peter Griffin]

Which is why it is pretty foolish to blow up publicly owned skyscrapers with no real redevelopment plan in place. That's density, you'll likely never get back. You'd be better off giving away the building as the public incentive to help make redevelopment numbers work, as opposed to spending millions to raze and then millions more to replace it with a five story stick frame structure.

We all know that. You're preaching to the choir. What's done is done, though, I'm focusing on discussing the current situation and development, not lamenting the errors the city has made.

[thelakelander]

Downtown is a big hamster wheel. Yesterday it was the City Hall Annex and the Landing. Today, it's the FBC Sunday school building. Tomorrow, it could be the Universal Marion Building. The mistakes remain the same. So in a way, what's done is actually not really done. It just moves on another site, lighting public money on fire as it continues throughout downtown's streets. As for this site, at this point, whatever is built will be low rise. That's Jax's market and it is, what it is. The potential error here (another that happens in the hamster wheel) is heavily subsidizing stick frame apartments on the waterfront. You can do market rate stick frame now. There's no strong reason to heavily incentivize it. It you want retail.....provide that same level incentives to the existing vacant storefronts and buildings already down there.

[icarus]

Downtown is a big hamster wheel. Yesterday it was the City Hall Annex and the Landing. Today, it's the FBC Sunday school building. Tomorrow, it could be the Universal Marion Building. The mistakes remain the same. So in a way, what's done is actually not really done. It just moves on another site, lighting public money on fire as it continues throughout downtown's streets. As for this site, at this point, whatever is built will be low rise. That's Jax's market and it is, what it is. The potential error here (another that happens in the hamster wheel) is heavily subsidizing stick frame apartments on the waterfront. You can do market rate stick frame now. There's no strong reason to heavily incentivize it. It you want retail.....provide that same level incentives to the existing vacant storefronts and buildings already down there.

As someone who has walked away from investments downtown, I can honestly say that if you want to develop anything in downtown Jacksonville ... you have to financially plan on not being able to do anything for a year to 2 years after you acquire the building or site .... as long as that level of regulation and delay exists .. why would you develop downtown without incentives ....?

[thelakelander]

Time is money. Why does it take so long and what would you suggest to reduce the timeline? Is this specific to downtown Jax or the city as a whole?