Commuter Rail Study Update: Costs and Ridership

[Metro Jacksonville]

Commuter Rail Study Update: Costs and Ridership



JTA's commuter rail study is now far enough along to provide preliminary estimates for service frequencies, ridership projections, annual Operating and Maintenance costs, as well as capital costs.  Will this be convincing enough to keep the train moving forward?

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/922

[Jason]

Bravo guys.  And kudos to JTA for moving forward with the study and for posting some promising numbers in support of commuter rail further proving that it can be very inexpensive to implement as compared to other types of transit.

The MetroJacksonville observations are spot on, IMO.  The Southeast corridor has been my favorite since its inception, for both biased and legitimate reasons.  A tourist connection between DT Jax and St. Augustine just makes the most sence to get the ball rolling on this system.

[Doctor_K]

Agree Jason.  Thanks so much Ennis & Co. for all your dedicated hard work on this important issue.  IMO, there are so many more 'pros' than 'cons' with this subject that it makes no sense to fight against it.  It would do wonders for every area of town in which it goes.

[thelakelander]

Just wait to the Amtrak article.  Amtrak actually believes they can run an enhanced Florida corridor system that, at a minimum, will break even at the farebox. 

[Jason]

Great news there too.  Having local and regional/national connections all up and running will certainly be a huge plus for Jax.

[BridgeTroll]

Kudos guys... That is alot of info.  I am sure there is alot more to come.

[9a is my backyard]

Just wait to the Amtrak article.  Amtrak actually believes they can run an enhanced Florida corridor system that, at a minimum, will break even at the farebox. 

Wow, I can't wait to hear about this.

What's the reason behind the North Corridor having more frequent service than the Southwest and Southwest?  I'm assuming they would have fewer cars, but wouldn't this increase O&M costs?

[tufsu1]

Just wait to the Amtrak article.  Amtrak actually believes they can run an enhanced Florida corridor system that, at a minimum, will break even at the farebox. 

they told Florida the same thing 10 years ago...but we went ahead with a grandiose High Speed Rail scheme instead....until Jeb got that axed as being a waste of moeny.

[Joe]

Great information. Thanks for all the numbers.

Hopefully, as the commuter rail proposal becomes more fleshed-out, city leaders won't be able to justify BRT anymore. If only the city council would divert BRT funding towards commuter rail, it looks like Jax's entire portion of the system could be paid for with existing funds.

Speaking of which, have any consultants or JTA officials addressed the necessary issue of cross-county cooperation? Obviously, Jax can't pay for an entire Yulee/Green Cove/St Augustine system all by itself. Duval county taxpayers wouldn't unilaterally fund infrastructure for the suburban counties. Conversely, I doubt that Nassau, Clay, and St Johns counties would just casually agree to pay for the miles that go through their jurisdictions - especially since they have the lowest population to distance ratios.

How would the counties even theoretically come to an accord on shared funding? Is JTA assuming that as long as Duval pays for all the start up costs (like trains), that the suburban counties will just eventually come on board and build platforms and parking lots with their own money?

[Ocklawaha]

The sad part is, now that Amtrak has stable funding FINALLY, we have gone and built "THE GREAT WALL OF JACKSONVILLE" across the tracks in the form of the Prime Osbourne -"Fishing and Gun show Center". So to cover our mistake, we will have to build 2/3 of a train station under the Skyway on Bay Street and the other 1/3 (St. Augustine-Southside) will use the current tracks where the DMU was displayed and have to walk 1/4 mile to get to the connection. The tunnels are flooded and don't even exist in their plans, but a massive new SKYWALK does. About the time they do all of this we'll decide to abanon the PO and move it to the Hyatt area

YA Know? The Current Court House, old City Hall, Jail and JSO building might be a great spot to develop a really stunning convention center - imagine one with a Skyway and Streetcars running THROUGH it?!

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

Great information. Thanks for all the numbers.

Hopefully, as the commuter rail proposal becomes more fleshed-out, city leaders won't be able to justify BRT anymore. If only the city council would divert BRT funding towards commuter rail, it looks like Jax's entire portion of the system could be paid for with existing funds.

Speaking of which, have any consultants or JTA officials addressed the necessary issue of cross-county cooperation? Obviously, Jax can't pay for an entire Yulee/Green Cove/St Augustine system all by itself. Duval county taxpayers wouldn't unilaterally fund infrastructure for the suburban counties. Conversely, I doubt that Nassau, Clay, and St Johns counties would just casually agree to pay for the miles that go through their jurisdictions - especially since they have the lowest population to distance ratios.

How would the counties even theoretically come to an accord on shared funding? Is JTA assuming that as long as Duval pays for all the start up costs (like trains), that the suburban counties will just eventually come on board and build platforms and parking lots with their own money?

Good question, Joe.  I don't think they have a solid answer for this.  However, its a critical element that needs to be addressed in the near future.  The answer can be found in Orlando.  There Orange, Osceola, Seminole and Volusia are splitting the cost by paying for the segments that run in their jurisdiction.  It would be interesting to see how consultant numbers break down by county.  Sharing the costs between four counties would make the system more affordable for all.

[tufsu1]

JTA is contemplating becoming a regional authority...similar to the RTO in South Florida (which runs Tri-Rail) and the newly created TBARTA in Tampa Bay.

[fsujax]

A regional authority would make it eaiser to split the cost. There are a number of different ways these agreements can be arranged. This study will address funding, but in a larger context. When a more detailed study is commenced then that is when specifics will be addressed about to handle cost. Central Florida is a good example to follow. Counties, cities, Regional Authority, the state will all share in the cost of any regional transit system. This is only a "feasibility study" and those specific questions will be addressed in a much more detailed study to follow.

[whitey]

Just wait to the Amtrak article.  Amtrak actually believes they can run an enhanced Florida corridor system that, at a minimum, will break even at the farebox. 

Wow, I can't wait to hear about this.

What's the reason behind the North Corridor having more frequent service than the Southwest and Southwest?  I'm assuming they would have fewer cars, but wouldn't this increase O&M costs?

I'm guessing its because there are two southern routes and only one nothern route.  So any train you take northbound will wind up on the northern route but only half of the southbound trains will go to either the SE or SW route.

[thelakelander]

The north route serves an inner city area of high population density and a large number of transit dependent residents.  Compared to the SW and SE corridors, the rail lines in the north corridor also have higher capacity for passenger rail.

Quite frankly, I'm suprised ridership numbers came in as low as they did along this section.  To me, as studies get more detailed, its a great candidate to reduce in length.  In the end, it will probably make sense to combine a portion of this segment along with another to form a first phase starter line.  As the community grows, it can be extended in the future when the demand is there.