Commuter Rail Study Update: Costs and Ridership

[thelakelander]

This is why, Lake is your image the one that came from the meeting? Is this what they plan to do to commuter rail? Is this from Gannet Flemming or JTA? GF are railroad people and ought to know better. I happen to know FDOT hit the fan when I talked to their rail people about this roumor. "INSANE", "STUPID", etc... and those were the nice things they said.

Yes, that's the image from last Wednesday's presentation by Gannet Flemming.  Looking from outside the box, it seems they have been told the convention center property is off limits.  When you have a community that doesn't properly plan for its future, this is the type of stuff you end up with, regardless of how many professionals you have working with you.  The convention center needs to go!

Imagine a train that runs through from St. Augustine to the Airport! What about Roosevelt Kent to JTB? So what do we do with it? Make two station stops?

You'll have to get off with your luggage and walk two blocks north to transfer to the northbound line.  Definately, not ideal.  However, if you kick the convention center out, everything can be consolidated and the huge surface parking lot and exhibition hall can be converted into Operations & Maintenance facilities for commuter rail and Amtrak.  The answer here is clear.  The convention center needs to go!

[Joe]

Also, for whatever it's worth, the first plan seems to require the purchase of that small private lot next to the convention center. They want $3,000,000+ last I heard.

[fsujax]

Maybe this will hasten the discussion of moving the convention center. If JTA/FDOT/Amtrak can show that it needs the space for a major rail investment then maybe someone at City Hall, as well as the CVB along with public outcry will force the City to seriously consider moving the Convention Center. Obviuosly, we all know it needs to be moved, but JTA alone can not move the Convention Center. They are simply working with what they have and let's remember everything being shown is simply conceptual, non of this is for certain. Maybe by showing these things on maps conceptually, someone will get a clue and it will make it easier to openly begin discussing relocation of the convention center.

[Ocklawaha]

Maybe this will hasten the discussion of moving the convention center. If JTA/FDOT/Amtrak can show that it needs the space for a major rail investment then maybe someone at City Hall, as well as the CVB along with public outcry will force the City to seriously consider moving the Convention Center. Obviuosly, we all know it needs to be moved, but JTA alone can not move the Convention Center. They are simply working with that they have and let's remember everything being shown is simply conceptual, non of this is for certain. Maybe by showing these things on maps conceptually, someone will get a clue and it will make it easier to openly begin discussing relocation of the convention center.

I agree - this is not at JTA issue, the CITY OF JACKSONVILLE needs to get the convention center up and outta there.

But failing that, GF and JTA should walk the old yard South of the station. There is room for at least 4 and maybe 6 more tracks. Leaving them at the old level and making them open to switches at either end would serve commuter rail and Amtrak just like Dallas does.  In fact Dallas uses the tracks for LRT also. Perhaps a RFP for the tunnels, maybe a tunnel extension under the concourse and Bay to the Skyway-bus facility? Rebuilding the Viaduct to pass over the trains and allow from built in streetcar tracks. Just this simple change would solve many problems without the city acting fast on the convention center.

In other words, plan like we will win. and have rail - streetcar - BRT - Skyway - Water taxi and bus, and build toward that plan. But live like we are stuck with the Prime Osbourne FOREVER!

OCKLAWAHA

[ProjectMaximus]

http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2008/10/20/daily36.html

What's this mean for commuter rail...if anything? Is that $109,000 further deterrent for bringing the S-line back for rail use?

[Ocklawaha]

Truth be told? The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, and frankly from a railroad standpoint, pave the whole darn thing... Makes great track bed, WEED - SOIL FREE! So if we want a REALLY quality ride, just sit back and let big blue pave the way. Remember railroads have rights to take the property - parks wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

All mean joking aside, there's plenty of room for both trails and track along the "S" line.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

The grant is a good thing for both pedestrians and potential rail commuters.  From the statement, this sounds like something that will be used to better integrate the S-Line ROW, with the neighborhoods surrounding it.  In other words, sidewalks, signage and bike lanes on side streets leading people to and from the S-Line.  As for any extensions of the trail, if we don't want to rip it up when its time to lay track, don't build the thing in the middle of the ROW.  The ROW is 60' wide.  Any trail extension should be shifted to the side, leaving more width for rail.

[ProjectMaximus]

ah, i see, thanks. I'll take the optimistic view then expect the improvements to the trail to be integrated with potential rail uses in mind.