Boom times in Downtown Orlando

[thelakelander]

What are the metrics for reaching revitalization?      What is the level of vitality today compared to 1950 that's needed to be revitalized?  I don't mean to get all lawyeristic, just trying to get an idea of how others see it.

Just keep it simple. Each year, the numbers (ex. residential population, business openings, employment, foot traffic, occupancy rates, etc.) should generally grow at a rate that's equal or above the general average of peer cities across the country. I'd also break that growth down to more comparable metrics, as opposed to annexing surrounding areas and calling them downtown. So what was the Northbank employment population in 1980, 1990, 2000 and 2010? If 2018 is lower than that's your revitalization answer.

Or you can keep it more simple and ask yourself this. We've invested hundreds of millions in the name of revitalization in downtown since 1980. It's now 2019. On a Sunday morning, how many places outside of 7-Eleven or a hotel can you get a coffee and a hot breakfast? If you struggle to come up with a few places, it likely means your public investments over the last 40 years haven't resulted in creating the synergy needed for businesses to maintain consistent operating hours. IMO, that's a sign of struggle.

[vicupstate]

Let me say great article, but I would remiss in responsibilities if I didn't do this....

Many cities have struggled with the revitalization of their urban cores.

It is just Jax that is struggling.  I actually can't think of any town or city of any size that hasn't been able to pull it off yet.

What are the metrics for reaching revitalization?      What is the level of vitality today compared to 1950 that's needed to be revitalized?  I don't mean to get all lawyeristic, just trying to get an idea of how others see it.

And I ask because I can think of all sorts of downtowns that I wouldn't consider revitalized all that much compared to how they used to be.  IMHO often times people look at something that was practially dead and once any sort of life comes back in some part of it, they decalre it revitalized.    That's a low bar.

People too often mix up resurgent with revitalized.  There's not the same. 

* Birmingham -    Giant, empty, with a couple of spots not dead.
* Kansas City, KS - You're life would be at risk after dark except that you'll be the only person there.   
* Hartford - a bankrupt dumpster fire
* Providence - Like many cities it's age and size, an empty shell of its old self.
* Rochester, NY -  I'm suprised they don't turn the lights off after 4:30pm.
* Detroit - Detroit is resurgent.  But with a downtown population smaller than the town near my grandma's farm AND at that in a metro area of 5 million people, it has a long, long, long road ahead of it; Not revitalized ( yet ).
* Milwaukee - There's some reason for hope.  That is, there is resurgence.    Like Detroit, don't conflate that with being revitalized.
* Indianapolis - What did you expect from Indiana.

There are others I'm not comfortable calling revitalized like St. Louis, Salt Lake City and Norfolk.  With Norfolk I'd be curious to know what some people familiar with it's history think.  I get the sense that while downtown had a decline compared to other downtowns in the US it fared pretty well.  I'm not sure there was really much there for revitalization.  Maybe not?

Are you for real?

I haven't been to Detroit, Rochester, KC Kansas, SLC or Norfolk, but I have been to all those other cities and they all blow the doors off of Jacksonville except Hartford. Even Hartford seemed healthier than JAX, albeit it was not as stark a difference.

Providence, Indy and Milwaukee all are legitimately revitialized in every sense, from what I have seen. And that was a decade plus ago.   

[thelakelander]

^I didn't even take the comment about those cities seriously. Rochester and KC Kansas weren't particularly vibrant when I visited them around 10 years ago but....why KC Kansas as the example and not KC MO? Downtown KC MO would be more applicable and it blows the doors off DT Jax when it comes to vibrancy. I haven't been to Milwaukee or SLC but I've seen enough pics of them and happen to be familiar with enough of their redevelopment over the last decade to know that it's disrespectful to place them in the same category as DT Jax. DT SLC, in particular, is a big national success story for second and third tier level cities like Jax. As for the rest, I have been to them and was in DT Detroit for Christmas. None of them may be at their 1950 levels of vibrancy, but they aren't on the verge of having zombie apocalypse style lack of vibrancy either.

[CityLife]

Would love to also see a comparison of growth in the Downtown's of Tampa, St. Pete, WPB, and Ft. Lauderdale this decade. Everyone knows Miami has blown up, but it would be eye opening to see what has happened in other cities recently. Your average Jaxon goes to Orlando to visit theme parks, but doesn't get around the rest of the state very much.

I also think the Jax Chamber delegations that travel the country should instead start traveling around the state, where I think their minds would be blown.

[Kerry]

I was just in WPB last Saturday - there is simply no comparing it downtown Jax.  I don't care if every Khan-Curry wet dream came true it still wouldn't be 1/5 of downtown WPB.

[thelakelander]

I travel quite often. There aren't many places of decent size that are sleepier than DT Jax at nights and on weekends. And when I say DT, I'm talking the Northbank. It's 2019 and it doesn't even have one bonafide main retail/dining street where a cohesive strip of storefronts and restaurants are consistently open outside of week day office hours. Even smaller places like Lakeland have excelled at that. Unfortunately, nothing at the stadium or Brooklyn is going to change that. Those districts are their own animals. Hopefully, the hotel projects add some life but they're not enough on their own without a strategy to cluster more activity immediately around them.

[pierre]

I travel quite often. There aren't many places of decent size that are sleepier than DT Jax at nights and on weekends.

I have yet to encounter one that is sleepier. It's stunning when travelling to similar sized cities (Milwaukee, Providence), how ahead of Jacksonville they are.

[thelakelander]

It really is tough to come up with some recent examples. Toledo, Buffalo and Rochester appeared to be pretty sleepy during my last trips in those cities. However, it's been a good 10 years, so I don't know what's taken place in those cities over the last decade. Tampa used to be pretty comparable. However, it's made some strides over the last decade. I guess, maybe Macon, GA. That downtown (although very pretty) appeared to be empty outside of regular weekday business hours.

[CityLife]

I was just in WPB last Saturday - there is simply no comparing it downtown Jax.  I don't care if every Khan-Curry wet dream came true it still wouldn't be 1/5 of downtown WPB.

Downtown West Palm Beach would be the true eye opener for Jax and there is a ton of really cool stuff coming soon as well. Obviously biased because I live here now, but Palm Beach County is the best part of the state by a good distance, imo.

[thelakelander]

We'll have a Boom Times in West Palm Beach article up pretty soon. I have quite a few pictures from the last few months that I've never gotten around to sharing.

[Kerry]

We'll have a Boom Times in West Palm Beach article up pretty soon. I have quite a few pictures from the last few months that I've never gotten around to sharing.

I probably get more frustrated with Jax than the average bear and the thing I struggle with the most is how to turn that frustration into action.  It isn't enough to point out the flaws - the flaws have to be fixed.  How do we get the City to take action or can we even get the City to take action?  There is always a lot of talk amongst City leaders but no action ever results from it, and I don't mean on just the big ticket things.  Even little stuff doesn't get fixed.  How many crosswalks in this City don't even line up with center median cuts or sidewalks that don't connect to each other?

There is a sidewalk in my subdivision that goes to the entrance to the subdivision.  There is another sidewalk built by the builder along the city street outside the subdivision.  Both brand new and they miss connecting by 25 feet!  Who the hell in the planning department approved that and what are they going to do to fix it?  Sure, you say call your council person, which yes, I can do that - but why is that attention to detail not already standard operating procedure with the planning department?  We also need a bigger voice than just a bunch of individuals talking to other individuals in private.

When I lived in Oklahoma City we had the good fortune of having a writer with the Oklahoman newspaper take up the urbanist cause and put these issues on the front of the business section everyday.  It didn't take long for City leadership to get on-board because they were being questioned about it constantly in public with a bunch of other people saying, "Yeah, I was wondering the same thing - when are you going to fix that."  Unfortunately, the Time-Union is about as worthless as it can be so that venue doesn't exist here.

Anyhow, that is my rant and if anyone else has the same frustration and wants to figure out something to do about it I'm in.

[thelakelander]

We'll have a Boom Times in West Palm Beach article up pretty soon. I have quite a few pictures from the last few months that I've never gotten around to sharing.

I probably get more frustrated with Jax than the average bear and the thing I struggle with the most is how to turn that frustration into action.  It isn't enough to point out the flaws - the flaws have to be fixed.  How do we get the City to take action or can we even get the City to take action?  There is always a lot of talk amongst City leaders but no action ever results from it, and I don't mean on just the big ticket things.  Even little stuff doesn't get fixed.  How many crosswalks in this City don't even line up with center median cuts or sidewalks that don't connect to each other?

Perfect day for your rant. Simple, get yourself, your family and your friends out and go vote.

[Kerry]

We'll have a Boom Times in West Palm Beach article up pretty soon. I have quite a few pictures from the last few months that I've never gotten around to sharing.

I probably get more frustrated with Jax than the average bear and the thing I struggle with the most is how to turn that frustration into action.  It isn't enough to point out the flaws - the flaws have to be fixed.  How do we get the City to take action or can we even get the City to take action?  There is always a lot of talk amongst City leaders but no action ever results from it, and I don't mean on just the big ticket things.  Even little stuff doesn't get fixed.  How many crosswalks in this City don't even line up with center median cuts or sidewalks that don't connect to each other?

Perfect day for your rant. Simple, get yourself, your family and your friends out and go vote.

Did early voting last week but same problem, how do I know who the urbanist choices are?  Do any of them even care about walkable urbanism or the evils of sprawl?  We could use a CNU Voters Guide.

Maybe I should run for Council.  At least I know where I stand and no amount of Jags money could change my opinion.

[vicupstate]

I have advocated for about 10 years creating a membership organization(PAC) that identifies, endorses, supports, organizes and contributes to urban-minded candidates for Mayor and Council. It should be separate from The Jaxson but would no doubt have big overlap in active members/contributors.

1) Submit questionaire to each candidate
2) Interview each candidate based on their answers and past experience
3) Make Endorsements published via The Jaxson
4) Cut check from membership dues to endorsees.
5) provide membership lists to Endorsed candidates to recruit volunteers, yard signs, etc.
6) Start getting your phone calls returned and your issues addressed at City Hall.
       

[Charles Hunter]

^ sounds good, how do you get started?