Tear-down of courthouse leaves wide-open options for city

[thelakelander]

The walls of the old Duval County courthouse are coming down, but the fate of the riverfront land beneath the building remains up in the air after the Downtown Investment Authority board on Wednesday unanimously rejected proposals from developers for a new convention center at the downtown site.

Board members did not discuss what to do next with the city-owned land after demolition of the courthouse and the next-door city hall annex clears the property for redevelopment.

"I don't think there's any definite plan in place," board member Ron Moody said after the meeting. "I think it's wide open, and we'll let the market forces react and see if there's someone else who would come in to develop the property."

Brian Hughes, interim CEO of the investment authority, said the next move could be a meeting between DIA board Chairman Jim Bailey and Mayor Lenny Curry, followed by Bailey seeking insights from fellow board members at a future board meeting.

"It's not outside the realm of possibility that the January [board] meeting might have some contemplation of next steps," Hughes said.

Full article: https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20181212/tear-down-of-courthouse-leaves-wide-open-options-for-city?start=2

[Keith-N-Jax]

Wide open surface lot. This is prime property, how long will it sit empty.

[vicupstate]

Wide open surface lot. This is prime property, how long will it sit empty.

If history is a guide, it will be many years. 

[thelakelander]

It took over 20 years for redevelopment in LaVilla to heat up. We're still waiting for the infill development boom to happen around the new (can we still call it new?) county courthouse.

[pierre]

"Tear-down of _______ leaves wide-open options for city"


Repeat this headline every few years

[KenFSU]

Reads like an Onion article.

Glad they had this all figured out prior to investing close to $100 million in tearing down the entire area.

"I don't think there's any definite plan in place," board member Ron Moody said after the meeting.

"I think it's wide open, and we'll let the market forces react and see if there's someone else who would come in to develop the property."

"It's not outside the realm of possibility that the January [board] meeting might have some contemplation of next steps."

[thelakelander]

^Lol, how long have we known that this site was going to replaced by the Duval County Courthouse on the other side downtown? 20 years? Moody's quotes illustrate a long standing problem. We should have had this discussion take place 15 years ago.

[Bill Hoff]

Reads like an Onion article.

It really does.

[downtownbrown]

Just to deviate from the beaten stepchild tone typical, and well earned, within these sorts of conversations, seems to me that the location of this property is a huge differential from other dormant properties.  It's in the Elbow, it's adjacent to condos and townhouses that are in the $200k-$500k price range, it's directly on the water, and it's just about half way between TIAA Field and the Times Union.  So, while I'd love to see a permanent green space there, I really doubt it will be dormant for too long.

[fieldafm]

Just to deviate from the beaten stepchild tone typical, and well earned, within these sorts of conversations, seems to me that the location of this property is a huge differential from other dormant properties.  It's in the Elbow, it's adjacent to condos and townhouses that are in the $200k-$500k price range, it's directly on the water, and it's just about half way between TIAA Field and the Times Union.  So, while I'd love to see a permanent green space there, I really doubt it will be dormant for too long.

The same was said about the former JEA Southside Generating Station powerplant. Closed in 2001, JEA spent $25 million to demolish the plant in 2003, accepted a bid in 2005 to redevelop the site (which never closed), accepted another bid on the property in 2014 to redevelop the site (for about $7mllion less than they paid to demolish the structure), closed on that sale in 2018 and vertical construction has yet to have taken place (and likely won't for several years).

Being 10 years into a booming real estate cycle also doesn't help things, either. The market will begin to turn again sooner rather than later.

The real winners downtown are the companies that get paid to demolish buildings.

[downtownbrown]

Yeah, except the Elbow is not the Southside, and Khan has no interest in the Southside.  We'll see, but like I said, a greenspace is fine with me, and Bay Street will welcome the sunshine.

[thelakelander]

Khan's been interested in the Shipyards for how many years now? Before him, it was LandMar and Trilegacy. We're a good 20 years of talking about its future too...and we're still a few years away from anything going vertical south of the Hart Bridge ramp...assuming nothing goes wrong.

[fieldafm]

Yeah, except the Elbow is not the Southside, and Khan has no interest in the Southside.  We'll see, but like I said, a greenspace is fine with me, and Bay Street will welcome the sunshine.

The former JEA powerplant site (AKA The District, AKA the Southside Generating Station) site is not on the Southside of Jacksonville... it's downtown.  It also sits on hundreds of feet of urban waterfront, it's also adjacent to (more) condos, townhouses, single family homes and multifamily apartments, and unlike The Elbow (which is simply a collection of fairly forgettable bars, and a nice steakhouse) it has direct access to I-95 with the recent completion of an interchange at Atlantic Blvd. Not sure how the former Courthouse site is leaps and bounds different than The District site from a development perspective.

Khan has not expressed any interest on the Courthouse site either, so not sure what you are implying there. As Lakelander said, the Shipyards site is now on its 4th development group in the last 20 years, and still not much action. Even if Khan closed on the property tomorrow (which isn't going to happen), that's still a 15 year project. 

[KenFSU]

Khan's been interested in the Shipyards for how many years now? Before him, it was LandMar and Trilegacy. We're a good 20 years of talking about its future too...and we're still a few years away from anything going vertical south of the Hart Bridge ramp...assuming nothing goes wrong.

I think a few years might even be generous.

Before anything goes vertical at the Shipyards:

1) We'd need to negotiate an economic development agreement with Iguana for the property (the Lot J agreement has taken nearly a year, and is still not signed) and the cleanup
2) Iguana would have to create a detailed master plan for the Shipyards (let's call this 9 months)
3) An RFP for environmental remediation would need to be put together, released, and awarded based on the planned uses for each area (let's call this 4 months)
4) Environmental remediation of 70 acres of highly contaminated industrial land would need to take place (3 years from selection to completion has been estimated)
5) The EPA would need to give the land a clean bill of health for intended uses (this took the District close to a year)

Maybe one or two of these steps could happen concurrently, but assuming everything goes perfectly smoothly, I don't see how anything is built at the Shipyards any sooner than five or six years from now.

Environmental is going to be a bear.

[Dapperdan]

Lets move the jail there..lol