Tear-down of courthouse leaves wide-open options for city

[MusicMan]

What a depressing, real world thread. Can't we just go back to the pretty pictures Iguana has drawn up for some undetermined date in the future?

And as Lake has pointed out MANY TIMES, the upward swing in the economy will not last forever.

That being said, with the current Republican view toward the environment and the EPA, maybe they can wave a wand and declare the site clean and ready for build out.

[Charles Hunter]

That being said, with the current Republican view toward the environment and the EPA, maybe they can wave a wand and declare the site clean and ready for build out.

That is not outside the realm of possibility. 

[Charles Hunter]

Meanwhile, the DIA has taken two Khan-favorable steps.  They expanded the development rights granted to The Shipyards to include Metro Park and Lot "J". And, they formally shut down the Convention Center at the Old Court House process.

DIA voted Wednesday to more than double the area on which the Shipyards developer has the rights to build 400 marina slips, 662 residential units, 100,000 square feet of commercial space, 1 million square feet of office space and 350 hotel rooms.

The expanded rights must be approved by the council.

Also on Wednesday, DIA officially quashed the plan to build a convention center at the site of the old courthouse and city hall annex.

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2018/12/13/dia-expands-shipyards-development-rights.html?ana=e_me_set1&s=newsletter&ed=2018-12-14&u=qn2xgMusSvJCgTcRVcM9Dg07e466fb&t=1544797443&j=85543501

[thelakelander]

Yes it has been overlooked that decades of study recommended the courthouse site as the best for a convention center. Yet while saying it's too early to invest in one, somehow a decision has been made to keep one from ever being built at that location.

[KenFSU]

Meanwhile, the DIA has taken two Khan-favorable steps.  They expanded the development rights granted to The Shipyards to include Metro Park and Lot "J". And, they formally shut down the Convention Center at the Old Court House process.

Funny things happen when the mayor's chief of staff takes over as interim CEO of the DIA.

Aundra Wallace was pro-Courthouse site, and was already talking to Hyatt about creative ways to move people back and forth between a Courthouse convention center and the stadium district.

Can't help but think there might have been more pushback about canceling the RFP outright if Wallace was still CEO.

[Snufflee]

Might as well change the name of the city to Khanville.

[KenFSU]

^Let's at least wait until something gets built.

It all feels like a shell game.

First, we give the Jaguars the Shipyards.

Then they ask for Met Park instead.

Next, we give the Jaguars the Shipyards and Met Park.

Then, they ask for the Hart Bridge Ramps to be removed.

Next, we lobby for the Hart Bridge ramps to be removed.

Then, they ask for Lot J instead.

Nothing's built.

Quite literally the entire redevelopment area - from Lot J, to parts of Met Park, to the entire Shipyards, to all the land under the Hart Bridge ramps - is horribly contaminated with no remediation plan in place.

And here we are are making long-term decisions on a convention center, talking about relocating the jail, squeezing the owners out of the Landing, and putting our long-term transportation eggs into a JRTC to stadium district corridor based on a pile of flashy, ever-changing renderings that are no closer to happening today than they were four years ago.

[thelakelander]

I just find it interesting to use a study to say the time isn't right for investment, but then ignore all the studies regarding convention center location and kill the entire location from further consideration. I still believe the most logical thing would be to work with Hyatt to get a +100k square foot exhibition hall behind the hotel and directly attached to it's second floor meeting/ballroom level since the we're demoing city hall annex. Looking how much money these things lose in larger tourist friendly cities, I think it's highly questionable on building anything much larger, no matter how pretty the renderings look.  Even 100k sf gives you +20k sf more than what the Prime Osborn has. It also clears that site for courting Virgin Trains USA, relocating Amtrak or whatever and its centrally located to the Elbow, Florida Theatre, TU center, Northbank riverwalk, the hotels coming in along Laura and the Landing (yes, I'm ignoring the political football being played there right now). The combination of these things and the synergy they create together is the supportive development the report claims DT lacks.

Also, given the elevation changes, you could still get some ground floor retail in and design the structure for vertical addition or mixed-use development whenever there's a market for it. That would take care of the convention center issue for decades and for a fraction of the costs, without requiring building over the part of the river being exposed. If people are too bougie for the Hyatt, throw in some extra cash to upgrade the hotel. That would be a lot cheaper than subsidizing another $100 million plus convention center hotel in a market that can't support two of them. However, I'm beginning to understand how logic can take a back seat when other dynamics are at play.

[JaxAvondale]

Down goes the old courthouse! Many of the surrounding buildings have windows blown as a result of the implosion.

[acme54321]

The imposion was pretty awesome.  A waste, but pretty awesome.

[thelakelander]

I saw the replay on social media and tv since it's being pushed like a big party. On the news they said the building cost $6 million to build but $8 million to blow up. Crazy but it pretty much serves as a microcosm DT Jax's decades long revitalization struggle.

[jaxnyc79]

So $5 million used to implode the bldg.  I wonder what might have happened had $5million in cash been dangled in front of the winner of an open-ended mixed-use RFP, payable upon issuance of a certificate of occupancy?  Right now we have yet another swath of open space and even less of at least the appearance of vitality downtown.  Instead, more visible vacancy, wasteland, abandonment.  At least there's a river view.  I also wondered about the wisdom of the city needing to spend money on site prep.  Wouldn't a developer have done his own site prep?  Was the bldg being there, really that much of an impediment to redevelopment (open-ended redevelopment, not just convention center)?

[jaxnyc79]

I saw the social media clips as well.  I was unclear on what people are celebrating. This fairly expensive bit of destruction doesn't presage anything at all!  It was done without replacement, without a specific plan, without signaling the beginning of new active land use for the site.  Seems really bone-headed but perhaps someone can shed light because I feel I'm missing something.

[MusicMan]

"Bold New City of the South"?

No, Seriously  when I heard there was an implosion downtown I thought they were describing the Jaguars season....

[marcuscnelson]

I saw the social media clips as well.  I was unclear on what people are celebrating. This fairly expensive bit of destruction doesn't presage anything at all!  It was done without replacement, without a specific plan, without signaling the beginning of new active land use for the site.  Seems really bone-headed but perhaps someone can shed light because I feel I'm missing something.

People like watching things blow up.

That's it.