Brooklyn Marriott Has Design Issues on All Sides

[Kerry]

Magnolia St could easily have on-street parking added.  It has nothing to do with FDOT.  Streets around Fresh Market already have on-street parking.

I was referring to Forest and/or Riverside.

Oh okay.  If it were up to me they should add on-street parking to all the roads in Brooklyn.

[Charles Hunter]

Magnolia St could easily have on-street parking added.  It has nothing to do with FDOT.  Streets around Fresh Market already have on-street parking.

I was referring to Forest and/or Riverside.

Neither Forest nor Riverside are state roads.  As said earlier, FDOT gave Riverside, north of Peninsular Place, to the City several years ago.  Forest, although built by FDOT, was never a state road.  It was part of a deal to give the City control over the retention pond - and now fountain - at 220 Riverside; and so the City could have total control over the landscaping of Riverside. 

[Kerry]

Magnolia St could easily have on-street parking added.  It has nothing to do with FDOT.  Streets around Fresh Market already have on-street parking.

I was referring to Forest and/or Riverside.

Neither Forest nor Riverside are state roads.  As said earlier, FDOT gave Riverside, north of Peninsular Place, to the City several years ago.  Forest, although built by FDOT, was never a state road.  It was part of a deal to give the City control over the retention pond - and now fountain - at 220 Riverside; and so the City could have total control over the landscaping of Riverside. 

Not to doubt this, but this isn't what we were told during the Gate gas station process.  On second thought, maybe Gate and the DDRB lied.

[Steve]

Magnolia St could easily have on-street parking added.  It has nothing to do with FDOT.  Streets around Fresh Market already have on-street parking.

I was referring to Forest and/or Riverside.

Neither Forest nor Riverside are state roads.  As said earlier, FDOT gave Riverside, north of Peninsular Place, to the City several years ago.  Forest, although built by FDOT, was never a state road.  It was part of a deal to give the City control over the retention pond - and now fountain - at 220 Riverside; and so the City could have total control over the landscaping of Riverside. 

Not to doubt this, but this isn't what we were told during the Gate gas station process.  On second thought, maybe Gate and the DDRB lied.

It may have been a state road during that process - the transition was recent. But, FDOT does have some level governance over the Gate site as it's adjacent to a Interstate Interchange. Not sure the exact rules.

But....that issue wouldn't apply to the Marriott site.

[Steve]

Forest, although built by FDOT, was never a state road.

You're probably right, but I thought it actually was a state road when built as I thought it carried US17?

[Charles Hunter]

Forest, although built by FDOT, was never a state road.

You're probably right, but I thought it actually was a state road when built as I thought it carried US17?

More than you probably wanted to know about US and State Road designation.

US 17 used to follow Roosevelt to the [former] Post/College 1-way pair, then Post to Riverside, to Water/Bay, to Main/Ocean. 
SR 228 came in on Normandy, to Post, to Post/College where it joined US 17.  It left Main/Ocean at either Forsyth/Adams or Monroe/Duval (I forget which) to get to the Hart Bridge.
SR 211 came through Fairfax, Avondale, and Riverside on Herschel, St. Johns, and Riverside.

When FDOT responded to the City's request to convert Post and College to 2-way, they were given to the City.  At that time, US 17 / SR 228 were rerouted to follow the Roosevelt Expressway from McDuff, to I-95, to State/Union.  US 17 turned north on Main/Ocean, while SR 228 went south to continue to the Hart Bridge.  When FDOT made (again in response to the COJ) Main Street 2-way between State and Union, US 17 turns north directly onto Main (don't know if FDOT has officially removed US 17 from State/Union/Ocean east of Main, yet).
Again, in response to COJ, FDOT terminated SR 211 at Peninsular Place, giving Riverside north of there to the City.

[Steve]

Forest, although built by FDOT, was never a state road.

You're probably right, but I thought it actually was a state road when built as I thought it carried US17?

More than you probably wanted to know about US and State Road designation.

US 17 used to follow Roosevelt to the [former] Post/College 1-way pair, then Post to Riverside, to Water/Bay, to Main/Ocean. 
SR 228 came in on Normandy, to Post, to Post/College where it joined US 17.  It left Main/Ocean at either Forsyth/Adams or Monroe/Duval (I forget which) to get to the Hart Bridge.
SR 211 came through Fairfax, Avondale, and Riverside on Herschel, St. Johns, and Riverside.

When FDOT responded to the City's request to convert Post and College to 2-way, they were given to the City.  At that time, US 17 / SR 228 were rerouted to follow the Roosevelt Expressway from McDuff, to I-95, to State/Union.  US 17 turned north on Main/Ocean, while SR 228 went south to continue to the Hart Bridge.  When FDOT made (again in response to the COJ) Main Street 2-way between State and Union, US 17 turns north directly onto Main (don't know if FDOT has officially removed US 17 from State/Union/Ocean east of Main, yet).
Again, in response to COJ, FDOT terminated SR 211 at Peninsular Place, giving Riverside north of there to the City.

Actually thanks because I was curious! I knew that US17 followed the Roosevelt Expressway to 10 and 95, but I thought at one point it got off on Forest to Riverside, to Broad/Jefferson, then State/Union, then Main/Ocean.

So bottom line is this (after all of that): The Gate Station was in FDOT purview because of Interchange Proximity, and FDOT would not be an issue with Marriott. Is that correct?

[Charles Hunter]

That seems a safe assumption, but I do not know for sure, since the Gate Station gets very close to the interchange ramps.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

That seems a safe assumption, but I do not know for sure, since the Gate Station gets very close to the interchange ramps.

Memory tells me that the issue with Gate / I-95 was where they were allowed to put entrances due to proximity to the exit from the interstate. 

That's why they weren't allowed an entrance on Forest and also what they used to help their argument over redesigning the site plan.

[howfam]

Site plan, from the Daily Record article linked below, which provides some further details:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/residence-inn-concept-reviewed-for-brooklyn

Utilities aren't the issue, as long as no one is suggesting moving a building over a public street to get it closer to Forest Street. What's needed is a little creativity with parking design and accommodation.  Just rethink what can be done with the streets surrounding the property.

1. Respect the traditional street grid by eliminating the thought of making the triangle between Oak, Price and Forest a surface parking lot.

2. Keep Forest open and consider making it accessible as a right-in only from Magnolia Street.

3. Consider making Magnolia a one-way, one lane street between Forest and Dora. The saved space could be a long block of on-street parallel parking adjacent to Unity Plaza. It will help compensate  the loss of parking in that triangle area.

4. Shift the building closer to Magnolia Street. To make this happen, build the off-street parking between the building and Magnolia off Magnolia, which could eliminate the need for a parallel off-street access drive there.

In the end, the building plan basically stays the same, does not penetrate the utility easement and you probably end up with or pretty close to the same number of parking spaces.

How 'bout making the building itself taller , say 12 stories  instead of six. This would allow more parking and give this area a much needed highrise visible from I-95 and I-10 approaches. Also add palm trees to address the tourist theme and its Florida context. Enough with the country-town pines and oaks.

[thelakelander]

Changing the footprint and construction type of the building will increase costs for a project that already has a narrow profit margin. Making it 12 stories basically kills the proposal.

[thelakelander]

Just saw the latest plan. Parking lot stays thr same. A 3' knee wall and shrubs have been added along Forest. There's also two crosswalks across the parking lot to connect to Unity Plaza. Last, there's a small green space added where the cul-de-sac at Oak and Forest currently lies.

[Captain Zissou]

So their solution is a shrubbery??  Great.  Can't want to see what happens to the grass lot that this building will surround.  Anyone know why Marriott was not able to get this property? Unless the price was just astronomical, it seems like acquiring this piece of land could have solved most of their problems.

[Charles Hunter]

I believe the article said the owner did not want to sell.  If they had a number on the parcel, it must have been so high as to squeeze the profitability of the project.

[ProjectMaximus]

Just saw the latest plan. Parking lot stays thr same. A 3' knee wall and shrubs have been added along Forest. There's also two crosswalks across the parking lot to connect to Unity Plaza. Last, there's a small green space added where the cul-de-sac at Oak and Forest currently lies.