Khan interested in developing shipyards

[Tacachale]

The city's definition of the Central Business District is this:



This is mainly just for planning and zoning purposes (and even there, DDRB and the city often grants exemptions). No one would include Springfield or San Marco below 95 part of downtown, except perhaps informally. There are supposedly about 4k people living across that whole CBD area. Growth in outlying areas like Southbank or Brooklyn is good, and fills in some dead spots on the urban core map, but they don't have a substantially higher impact on Downtown than people living in slightly further out neighborhoods like Springfield, especially with the lack of connectivity that urban Jacksonville has, and isn't doing much about.

The Downtown core, what most people usually would think of as downtown, is much smaller, pretty much the Downtown Vision area in the picture, minus the Southbank, and plus some additional blocks around the boundary. There are fewer than 2k people living there. That's where we'd really need to see population growth for it to impact Downtown's fortunes.

On the plus side, as further out neighborhoods like Brooklyn fill in, development is starting to move into closer neighborhoods like LaVilla. And hotels, college dorms, etc. like we're seeing in the Northbank core, will also definitely help even if it's not traditional housing. It'd be nice if the city had a holistic plan for all this.

[MusicMan]

Thanks for that^

Agree, my thinking is very few people walk from Brookyln into Downtown.  In reality, almost no one walks from Berkman I to the TU for a show.  When you go to Pittsburgh or similar sized city with vibrant DT areas people walk everywhere or use public transportation that is either cheap or free (Portland...) DT Jax seems pretty quiet even during Monday thru Friday 9-5 hours IMO.

[JaxAvondale]

Thanks for that^

Agree, my thinking is very few people walk from Brookyln into Downtown.  In reality, almost no one walks from Berkman I to the TU for a show.  When you go to Pittsburgh or similar sized city with vibrant DT areas people walk everywhere or use public transportation that is either cheap or free (Portland...) DT Jax seems pretty quiet even during Monday thru Friday 9-5 hours IMO.

I walk from Brooklyn to Downtown all the time and that includes Jaguars games.

[MusicMan]

Then you walk alone my friend. I congratulate you.

Why do you walk to downtown? For work? Certainly not to shop. For concerts?  Do you occasionally drive or ride a motor bike or bicycle?

I actually have friends who walk from their 220 Riverside Apartments to Symphony Hall. They do not own cars. They have never owned cars.
(They may never own cars.) But we are talking 3-4 people. I can only guess they Uber in poor weather. They are all from other countries. And bigger American cities.

[thelakelander]

According to DVI's most recent State of Downtown report, there's 8,500 people living in the area they call downtown (the map above). As mentioned above, that population is spread out like a kicked ant hill. Where much of it isn't, is in the historic Northbank core.

[Tacachale]

According to DVI's most recent State of Downtown report, there's 8,500 people living in the area they call downtown (the map above). As mentioned above, that population is spread out like a kicked ant hill. Where much of it isn't, is in the historic Northbank core.

Hmm, I heard 4K. I wonder if it's with or without the jail.

[TimmyB]

According to DVI's most recent State of Downtown report, there's 8,500 people living in the area they call downtown (the map above). As mentioned above, that population is spread out like a kicked ant hill. Where much of it isn't, is in the historic Northbank core.

Hmm, I heard 4K. I wonder if it's with or without the jail.

One more reason this site needs an "LOL" button!!!   

[thelakelander]

It was around 4k around the time of the real estate bust. I still don't know why people think DT hitting 10k is some significant number.  What's considered DT is too spread out to make much of a difference. The population needs to be clustered within the Northbank core to dramatically change the amount of pedestrian activity on the sidewalks.

[Tacachale]

It was around 4k around the time of the real estate bust. I still don't know why people think DT hitting 10k is some significant number.  What's considered DT is too spread out to make much of a difference. The population needs to be clustered within the Northbank core to dramatically change the amount of pedestrian activity on the sidewalks.

10k within the downtown core is what people are (or should be) talking about.

[thelakelander]

Yeah my only issue with that number is that it is a random benchmark made up by chamber types that has no real relationship to urban vibrancy. A good well designed and integrated 5k will trump a badly placed 10k. The area around FSCJ Deerwood is a good example. There's around 10k living in all those multifamily developments. The land area is less than what what the DIA recognizes as downtown but it's not pedestrian scale. On the other hand, DT Lakeland has less than 5k and must compete with everything else in Central Florida but still holds its own.

[vicupstate]

I think I have seen the 10k figure used in terms of what a grocery store chain wants to see before they will build in an urban area. I also seem to remember that was actually the case with Uptown Charlotte.  As with most things there are exceptions. If an area has millions of tourists annually but a modest number of residents, it might still support an urban grocer.   Also if nearby residential areas are under served, that can factor in as well. I do think there are tipping points with these things, it is just there are multiple variables at work. 

[downtownbrown]

Thanks for that^

Agree, my thinking is very few people walk from Brookyln into Downtown.  In reality, almost no one walks from Berkman I to the TU for a show.  When you go to Pittsburgh or similar sized city with vibrant DT areas people walk everywhere or use public transportation that is either cheap or free (Portland...) DT Jax seems pretty quiet even during Monday thru Friday 9-5 hours IMO.

Where do you get your data?  EVERYONE at Berkman walks to the TU for shows.  It's 8-10 minutes to mosey on down there.  And they walk or bike to Brooklyn, Riverside Arts Market, 5 Points, etc.  The TU and Landing are practically NEXT TO Berkman 1.  Ridiculous.

[jaxnyc79]

Yeah my only issue with that number is that it is a random benchmark made up by chamber types that has no real relationship to urban vibrancy. A good well designed and integrated 5k will trump a badly placed 10k. The area around FSCJ Deerwood is a good example. There's around 10k living in all those multifamily developments. The land area is less than what what the DIA recognizes as downtown but it's not pedestrian scale. On the other hand, DT Lakeland has less than 5k and must compete with everything else in Central Florida but still holds its own.

Should probably go one step further and attach a demographic profile to the number.  5k residences, educated, gainfully employed, above-average discretionary income, 20s to 50s, means a lot more to downtown's prospects and sidewalk vibrancy than 10k residences in senior housing, halfway houses, and low-income.

[Tacachale]

Yeah my only issue with that number is that it is a random benchmark made up by chamber types that has no real relationship to urban vibrancy. A good well designed and integrated 5k will trump a badly placed 10k. The area around FSCJ Deerwood is a good example. There's around 10k living in all those multifamily developments. The land area is less than what what the DIA recognizes as downtown but it's not pedestrian scale. On the other hand, DT Lakeland has less than 5k and must compete with everything else in Central Florida but still holds its own.

Should probably go one step further and attach a demographic profile to the number.  5k residences, educated, gainfully employed, above-average discretionary income, 20s to 50s, means a lot more to downtown's prospects and sidewalk vibrancy than 10k residences in senior housing, halfway houses, and low-income.

I feel like I'm going to be using this gif a lot.

[jaxnyc79]

Yeah my only issue with that number is that it is a random benchmark made up by chamber types that has no real relationship to urban vibrancy. A good well designed and integrated 5k will trump a badly placed 10k. The area around FSCJ Deerwood is a good example. There's around 10k living in all those multifamily developments. The land area is less than what what the DIA recognizes as downtown but it's not pedestrian scale. On the other hand, DT Lakeland has less than 5k and must compete with everything else in Central Florida but still holds its own.

Should probably go one step further and attach a demographic profile to the number.  5k residences, educated, gainfully employed, above-average discretionary income, 20s to 50s, means a lot more to downtown's prospects and sidewalk vibrancy than 10k residences in senior housing, halfway houses, and low-income.

I feel like I'm going to be using this gif a lot.

You can have a field day with it:).  It's not going to silence me.  You're not that important.