Khan interested in developing shipyards

[vicupstate]

Yes, people hit the fan over the buildings blocking river views and it being Sleiman owning the Landing.

The problem was Sleiman and Peyton, who never cared about DT in the first place, hated each other. The design actually OPENED up the best view to the river, which is Laura St. in exchange for closing off the Hogan St. view with a building.   

[KenFSU]

The first Sleiman redevelopment concept:

Thanks for the clarification guys.

Interesting plan.

Did some Googling, and it looks like Cameron Kuhn was planning a 33-story tower in the vicinity as well.

Here's a Times-Union article with all the details of what Sleiman proposed in 2003:

Published Thursday, November 13, 2003

Sleiman announces $250 million plan to expand The Landing

By GREGORY RICHARDS
The Times-Union,

In an extravagant gathering tonight at The Jacksonville Landing, local developer Toney Sleiman will publicly unveil his proposal costing up to $250 million to remake the struggling downtown shopping and entertainment complex.

Adding offices, condominiums, hotels and more -- possibly higher-end -- shops are part of Sleiman's plan to reinvigorate the 16-year-old center and make it a vital part of not only downtown but of the region. Perhaps the most notable change will be a 60-foot-wide opening carved through the northern section of the building, essentially extending Laura Street to the St. Johns River for pedestrians.

Jacksonville developer Toney Sleiman's plans for The Jacksonville Landing include slicing a 60-foot-wide opening, which would allow those on Laura Street to see and walk to the river. This phase would also include redoing the Landing exterior with a Mediterranean-style stucco finish. -- Artist renderings by Ron Garnett

Also in the works are up to three parking garages, providing badly needed downtown parking spaces for almost 3,000 cars.

It will cost between $200 million and $250 million.

"This is the postcard of the city of Jacksonville," Sleiman said of the Landing. "This has got to happen. We have to make this happen.

"It's for me, it's for my family, it's for my kids, it's for your kids ... It's for the people of Jacksonville."

A model by Zona & Associates illustrates what The Jacksonville Landing will look like following an expansion. GARY WILCOX/The Times-Union

Yet Sleiman's proposal is not a sure bet. His plan rests on a foundation of city incentives, which he says are essential for the project. Neither Sleiman or the city would reveal how much incentive money might be asked for or given.

But to pave the way for his request, Sleiman has been showing his plans to City Council members and other city officials for weeks to drum up political support. Still, he faces a tight city budget.

Plans call for expanding the Landing in three phases, with the first opening in January 2005 -- just in time for Jacksonville's Super Bowl. It would increase the size of the complex from 222,000-square feet to between 1.1 million square feet and 1.2 million square feet. Here's how the project breaks down:

Adding offices, condominiums, hotels and more shops are part of Sleiman's plan to reinvigorate the 16-year-old center and make it a vital part of not only downtown but of the region. -- Artist renderings by Ron Garnett

Phase 1: Involves slicing a 60-foot-wide opening into the Landing, which would allow those on Laura Street to see and walk to the river. This phase would also include redoing the exterior of the Landing with a Mediterranean-style stucco finish; developing a 120-space daily use marina; and building a 960-space parking garage that would be raised off the ground to allow people to see the river beyond. The garage will connect to the Landing and the adjacent Times-Union Center for the Performing Arts with a covered walkway. It will require Hogan Street to be closed south of Water Street.

Construction of those components will begin in March, pending City Council approvals, and should be finished by January 2005.

A model by Zona & Associates illustrates what The Jacksonville Landing will look like following an expansion. GARY WILCOX/The Times-Union

A six- to eight-story building will eventually be constructed between the river and parking garage. It will house offices, condominiums and retail, with a narrow base wrapped in a glass skin to allow people to see through to the river. At some point, Sleiman also plans to build a boutique hotel on top of the garage.

Phase II: Incorporates a second, 960-space parking garage between the east side of the Landing and the Main Street bridge. Also to be built is a second, six- to eight-story mixed-use building with stores, offices and condominiums. This building, with a look similar to that of the nearby 11 E. Forsyth apartment tower, will face the river.

Construction of this phase will begin when there is enough demand, Sleiman said.

Phase III: Comprises a 1,000-space parking garage to be built on the existing parking lot between the Main Street bridge and the Adam's Mark hotel. Fronting the river will be a 25-story building with stores, offices and condominiums.

Hear about the plans

Toney Sleiman is publicly presenting his plans for remaking The Jacksonville Landing at 5:30 p.m. today. The festivities, to be held at the Landing, include a chorale, swing band and fireworks.

Again, market demands will determine the timing of this work, Sleiman said.

Besides securing city incentives, another critical part of this project is attracting up to three national, "destination" restaurants, Sleiman said, none of which are currently on the First Coast. Sleiman would not reveal names because no leases have been signed.

But project drawings list The Cheesecake Factory and Brio, an Italian grille. Other names shown are Marriott, a hotel chain, and a Barnes & Noble bookstore. Sleiman said those names are only meant to show the types of tenants he is courting.

As for current Landing tenants, Sleiman said they are welcome to remain as long as they maintain their stores well.

One feature missing from the plans is a barge that would serve as a floating bandstand. "I was ahead of myself on that," Sleiman said. "You can't really bring a barge in and put bands on it."

Instead, he'll widen a portion of the Northbank Riverwalk and build a small stage there.

Sleiman's proposal has largely been greeted warmly by many in City Council. But financing hasn't been discussed yet.

"He's creating a destination, one that will benefit the rest of downtown," said Councilwoman Suzanne Jenkins, whose district includes the Landing. "And not only is he creating a destination, he's creating a place to park when you get there -- that's pretty comprehensive."

Sleiman said he's still studying how much it will cost to park in his garages. But he pledged it would be "real economical."

When it comes to incentives, Sleiman said he hasn't determined how much he will seek from the city, but that the number should be available "sometime in the next two weeks."

To allow the Landing to be built in 1985 at a cost of $31.5 million, the city agreed to provide developer Rouse Co. of Columbia, Md. with 8 acres of land, a $10 million loan and 800 parking spaces for Landing patrons. Sleiman bought the Landing from Rouse in August for $5 million.

He could receive such incentives as low-interest loans, tax breaks or the ability to buy the ground the Landing sits on at reduced cost.

City Council President Lad Daniels said in recent years, council has mainly provided incentives for downtown housing projects, such as 11 E. Forsyth and Berkman Plaza. But he said he is open to considering assistance for the Landing proposal, which contains some condominiums, but which mainly has retail and offices.

Another view of the model showing what The Jacksonville Landing will look like following an expansion. GARY WILCOX/The Times-Union

"We're creating a recipe for a successful downtown," Daniels said. "We know what the ingredients are, we're just not sure what the proportions are right now."

One constraint Sleiman is facing is a city budget that is stretched thin this year, and will be even tighter next year, Daniels said.

Mayor John Peyton has not yet reviewed Sleiman's plans, Peyton spokeswoman Heather Murphy said Wednesday afternoon. Murphy said that makes it premature to discuss how much the city might be prepared to offer Sleiman. Peyton is scheduled to attend tonight's gala, she said.

Sleiman said for this version of the project to go ahead, city dollars are essential.

"I have never yet asked the city for a nickel, never, and I have put into this city," Sleiman said. "Now we're asking for incentives. We need help to do this."

If the city doesn't provide enough incentives, Sleiman said he might simply just clean and paint the Landing and bring in tenants from the nearly 100 shopping centers his family owns in Northeast Florida.

He would still make money that way, he said.

"But I think we would hurt ourselves, we would hurt the people of Jacksonville, we would hurt downtown," he added.

Times-Union writer Earl Daniels contributed to this report.

gregory.richardsjacksonville.com, (904) 359-4649

[KenFSU]

Also, fun Sleiman site on the history of the Landing and it's redevelopment effort:

http://landingfacts.com/images-redevelopment-jacksonville-landing-lawsuit/

[thelakelander]

Kuhn's project was Riverwatch. We have renderings of all of these dead proposals on this website. Let me find the old article.

[thelakelander]

Here you go: https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-oct-results-of-the-boom-dead-projects

[Steve]

What's the chance that this could eventually include a new arena for the Armada? Any possibility of Robert Palmer looking into getting them back downtown?

I'm not convinced Robert Palmer wants anything from the Armada other than Advertising.

[Tacachale]

What's the chance that this could eventually include a new arena for the Armada? Any possibility of Robert Palmer looking into getting them back downtown?

I'm not convinced Robert Palmer wants anything from the Armada other than Advertising.

Yeah, no chance. They have to have a league before they start worrying about a new stadium, let alone a downtown stadium.

[Tacachale]

Also, fun Sleiman site on the history of the Landing and it's redevelopment effort:

http://landingfacts.com/images-redevelopment-jacksonville-landing-lawsuit/

So many plans, so little action.

[Steve]

Yes, people hit the fan over the buildings blocking river views and it being Sleiman owning the Landing.

OK, well now they have a dumpster in the Landing and a downtown about as vital as a barstool.

I'm convinced now that this was about Peyton sticking it to Sleiman. The issue of "blocking Hogan Street" wasn't real - it was simply an easy argument.

Sleiman also wanted to buy the land under the Landing - and I understood it. Banks are hesitant to give money for redevelopment if the land is under a 25 year lease. Somehow everyone thought that if you sold him the land he'd knock the Landing down and build a strip mall. That was idiotic because you could have just sold him the land under the buildings itself essentially forcing him to retain the shape.

It was just an excuse. Rumor has it that Sleiman's Dad and Peyton's Dad (Herb Peyton) don't like each other over how Herb Peyton was treated when they came to Jacksonville. I'd love to say I'm just making this crap up.

[KenFSU]

Yes, people hit the fan over the buildings blocking river views and it being Sleiman owning the Landing.

OK, well now they have a dumpster in the Landing and a downtown about as vital as a barstool.

I'm convinced now that this was about Peyton sticking it to Sleiman. The issue of "blocking Hogan Street" wasn't real - it was simply an easy argument.

Sleiman also wanted to buy the land under the Landing - and I understood it. Banks are hesitant to give money for redevelopment if the land is under a 25 year lease. Somehow everyone thought that if you sold him the land he'd knock the Landing down and build a strip mall. That was idiotic because you could have just sold him the land under the buildings itself essentially forcing him to retain the shape.

It was just an excuse. Rumor has it that Sleiman's Dad and Peyton's Dad (Herb Peyton) don't like each other over how Herb Peyton was treated when they came to Jacksonville. I'd love to say I'm just making this crap up.

My favorite Peyton/Landing moment was opening night of Club Paris, the Paris Hilton branded mega-club that was expected to usher in a new era for the Landing.

On opening night, all the local media was there, anticipating Paris Hilton's arrival at the swanky new downtown club.

She no-showed, and instead of Paris Hilton mingling with sharply dressed locals, we got live coverage of John Peyton doing a strange fast-dance surrounded by Jaxons in boot-cut jeans and t-shirts with fish on them.

It was an amazing night/the mid-2000s were weird.

[vicupstate]

Yes, people hit the fan over the buildings blocking river views and it being Sleiman owning the Landing.

OK, well now they have a dumpster in the Landing and a downtown about as vital as a barstool.

I'm convinced now that this was about Peyton sticking it to Sleiman. The issue of "blocking Hogan Street" wasn't real - it was simply an easy argument.

Sleiman also wanted to buy the land under the Landing - and I understood it. Banks are hesitant to give money for redevelopment if the land is under a 25 year lease. Somehow everyone thought that if you sold him the land he'd knock the Landing down and build a strip mall. That was idiotic because you could have just sold him the land under the buildings itself essentially forcing him to retain the shape.

It was just an excuse. Rumor has it that Sleiman's Dad and Peyton's Dad (Herb Peyton) don't like each other over how Herb Peyton was treated when they came to Jacksonville. I'd love to say I'm just making this crap up.

Anything Sleiman did or does to the Landing would have to be approved by the Design Review Board or whatever it is called anyway. I agree it was bad blood that was the likely culprit. 

[jaxnyc79]

Sounds to me like Peyton behaved like a very tiny man in the whole debacle

[KenFSU]

Sounds to me like Peyton behaved like a very tiny man in the whole debacle

But his button-game was STRONG.

Practically to his navel!

[marcuscnelson]

So it turns out that the land under Lot J is contaminated.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/entertainment-complex-site-has-challenges

Here we go again...

[thelakelander]

Makes sense. Everything south of Adams has been shipyards, oil terminals, sawmills, paint plants, etc. for more than a century before the Jags came to town.