Mayor taking proactive stance on downtown development

[mtraininjax]

he Prime Osborn is a great example of what can happen when a public project is too isolated from the things that make those types of facilities a success.

You forget that there was STUFF, a neighborhood, next to the Prime Osborn, until the City decided to tear it all down.  The Prime was a great idea, but the city liked to year down neighborhoods during the 90s. They did so for the sports and entertainment district.

[thelakelander]

There were some vacant warehouses in the vicinity.  However, there was never a hotel, entertainment and a cluster of dining options complementing the Prime Osborn.  No matter where the convention center is moved, if those things aren't adjacent, it's going to struggle to meet whatever potential we think one may have in Jax.

[Jim]

he Prime Osborn is a great example of what can happen when a public project is too isolated from the things that make those types of facilities a success.

You forget that there was STUFF, a neighborhood, next to the Prime Osborn, until the City decided to tear it all down.  The Prime was a great idea, but the city liked to year down neighborhoods during the 90s. They did so for the sports and entertainment district.

I work next door to the Prime Osborne.  What used to be across the street and in the surrounding blocks were not complementary to conventions.   While razing them was unfortunate in terms of the neighborhood itself, they were never a part of the support structure that typically surrounds a convention center.

[KenFSU]

Honestly, who (beyond the density freaks -- and you knows who you be -- right?) gives a damn if the convention center is in the Sports and Entertainment district or at the old Courthouse? Get it built !!

Come on man, people should give a damn.

A convention center is both a major investment and a major opportunity to catalyze downtown Jacksonville. It's the type of opportunity that only comes around every few decades and we can't afford to screw it up in a rush to just "get it built."

There was a similar debate 30 years ago when we suddenly had some grant money in the coffer to build a new signature urban park in downtown Jacksonville.

Jake Godbold's original proposal involved building a truly urban green esplanade connecting the Jacksonville Landing and the Prime Osborne Convention Center along the below strip.



The plan ran into some opposition over the closure of Water Street, and in a rush to "get it done" and avoid losing out on the grant money, the city literally decided at the last minute to build their new signature urban park a mile and a half to the east by the stadium.

Look how well that one turned out, and think about how different things might have been had we made a better choice.

Think about that opportunity cost. 30 years of wasted potential. Tens of millions of dollars about to be spent to raze and relocate the park via land swap because we chose the wrong spot the first time.

[Tacachale]

To be clear, my "not this shit again" comment was directed at your (repeated) comments about the president giving us money to demolish the Hart Bridge ramps out of his still elusive infrastructure budget, not the convention center. Not that I want to I want to get us talking about that shit again

Dance that jigaboo, bwah, dance !!!

lol wut

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

*again, I apologize for my skills in Paint.

[RattlerGator]

24/7/365 looking backwards and providing examples that mean nothing today.

Damn.

Jake Freakin' Godbold? Seriously ? ? ?

Okay. Density, density, density (newsflash -- from May to October we have an average high temp in the 80s or 90s and high humidity, but . . . density? Y'all are really that damn . . . dense -- see what I did there?).

Okay, okay, okay.

Maybe it *has* to be built down where y'all want it. Fine. But it's also quite possible (to me, at least) that it *needs* to be built down in the Sports and Entertainment District because we have a different kind of city, with a different kind of challenges, a City that needs a different kind of group pushing for a convention center who aren't slaves to seriously tired and inapplicable density concepts.

Maybe, just maybe. But, hell, y'all are the experts. Time will tell.

[Captain Zissou]

^ That post has Alderman Park Lover amounts of crazy in it. 

[Jim]

24/7/365 looking backwards and providing examples that mean nothing today.

Damn.

Jake Freakin' Godbold? Seriously ? ? ?

Okay. Density, density, density (newsflash -- from May to October we have an average high temp in the 80s or 90s and high humidity, but . . . density? Y'all are really that damn . . . dense -- see what I did there?).

Okay, okay, okay.

Maybe it *has* to be built down where y'all want it. Fine. But it's also quite possible (to me, at least) that it *needs* to be built down in the Sports and Entertainment District because we have a different kind of city, with a different kind of challenges, a City that needs a different kind of group pushing for a convention center who aren't slaves to seriously tired and inapplicable density concepts.

Maybe, just maybe. But, hell, y'all are the experts. Time will tell.

We aren't different enough for such different approaches.  Every city also has their own unique challenges.  But more to the point, show me an instance of what you are proposing working.  And I'm going to ask you again, can you show me a CC in a city and density of Jax that is as far away from the CBD as a Shipyards CC would be? 

Saying we are different (elaborate please) means we have to do different (CC more than a mile away from CBD) is baseless planning without any historical, economic, industry or practical support. When you are building a half a billion $ project, those factors shouldn't not be taken frivolously and pushed forward on simply, "Hey, we're different."

[thelakelander]

24/7/365 looking backwards and providing examples that mean nothing today.

Damn.

Jake Freakin' Godbold? Seriously ? ? ?

Okay. Density, density, density (newsflash -- from May to October we have an average high temp in the 80s or 90s and high humidity, but . . . density? Y'all are really that damn . . . dense -- see what I did there?).

Okay, okay, okay.

Maybe it *has* to be built down where y'all want it. Fine. But it's also quite possible (to me, at least) that it *needs* to be built down in the Sports and Entertainment District because we have a different kind of city, with a different kind of challenges, a City that needs a different kind of group pushing for a convention center who aren't slaves to seriously tired and inapplicable density concepts.

Maybe, just maybe. But, hell, y'all are the experts. Time will tell.

Lol, there's nothing different about Jax. It's hot as hell in Houston, New Orleans, San Antonio, Savannah, Charleston and Miami as well. Yet, all of these Sunbelt cities have embraced building/enhancing pedestrian scale density within their downtown cores and have witnessed much economic benefit as a result.

[JBTripper]

If the heat has any impact at all it should lead to more density, not less. I would not think twice about walking a half-mile to public transportation in New York because the high today is 73. But I'm driving to lunch downtown today in Jacksonville, because a 103-degree heat index means I will be drenched in sweat before I get to the end of my block, let alone Kings Avenue station.

I've been to conferences in Chicago and Denver and walked plenty of mileage... But in Jacksonville, if I was staying at the sports complex, I probably would not walk downtown in business-casual attire. Too damn hot.

[KenFSU]

So essentially we're going to do more of the same thing that left LaVilla and the Shipyards so desolate in the first place and just pray that the private sector decides to simply do us a favor and build things for us. When instead, we could try to protecting the density we do have and trying to grow more in other places.

I really, really, really don't want to jinx it, but there are some subtle early signs that the economy may have peaked as well. Local unemployment is up, you're starting to see scattered stores and restaurants closing around town, and the construction industry has flattened. I don't think we need to worry about a recession anytime soon, but if the economy does take a dip before all these newly demolished properties find buyers, we really could be looking at history repeating itself all over again.

[Keith-N-Jax]

Some of you act like the shipyards are on the south side, geez it's not that far, you can walk from Wells Fargo to shipyards in very little time.

[thelakelander]

The most successful convention centers have hotels, restaurants, bars, etc. immediately adjacent or well within a 1/4 mile radius of the facility. It's probably a closer to walk from the Prime Osborn to Wells Fargo than it is to walk over to EverBank Field (which is where the Jags hotel and conference center is planned). Other than being next to the stadium, it really is no different from the convention center's current isolated location. Except the Skyway (when it operates) makes it feasible to cut out the lion's share of that walking distance.

[Jim]

Some of you act like the shipyards are on the south side, geez it's not that far, you can walk from Wells Fargo to shipyards in very little time.

That's a 7,100 foot (1.35 mile) walk from the corner of Bay and Larura to Met Park.  Don a suit, make that trek at mid-day and let me know how lovely that stroll was.   It's a 25-30 minute walk.

For the record, the south bank is actually much closer.  From Bay and Laura to Prudential and Main (large parking lot suitable for a CC) is only a little more than half the distance.  Even walking all the way to the District is shorter than Met Park.

And the current CC is just 3,500 feet from the same starting point and we all know that's too far from the CBD and supporting/symbiotic businesses.