Mayor taking proactive stance on downtown development

[Gunnar]

He says that right now in public but I don't buy it. There is something. If there isn't, this makes little sense. He basically contradicted this statement in his interview with the Times-Union. I have no inside knowledge other than I have heard from reputable people that there is a plan with a public-private partnership angle.

Those opportunities were one of the main topics Mayor Lenny Curry covered when he met Wednesday morning with the Times-Union Editorial Board.

On Curry's drawing board are possibilities like a convention center and hotel where the old city hall and courthouse now stand, more residences Downtown, more entertainment opportunities, development of the old Shipyards site and either the removal or completion of the Berkman Plaza eyesore.

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/ron-littlepage/2017-06-23/ron-littlepage-progress-laura-street-trio-game-changer-downtown

I do think until they are willing to put those plans out there, there should be no demo of the Annex, which is historic in many ways, just as the JEA Building as mid-century architecture towers.

Unfortunately, that did not keep previous administrations from doing the same thing. "Demolish and they will come" most often did not happen, only the "demolish" part as witnessed by the many empty lots downtown.

Maybe the current administration is different and I am not saying that they do not hope something will be built, but why not wait until a developer puts money on the table and then raze it.

One way would be to have the investors pay for the demolition and then reimburse them (fully or partially) once the new development has been built rather than the city paying up front with no risk to the developers.

[Captain Zissou]

Why don't we just sell the southside generating station and the Shipyards, Courthouse, Metro-park sites to SHIELD so they have space to build an underwater base for their heli-carriers...  That's a real thing, right?

[Jim]

Can anybody show me a CC in a city and density of Jax that is as far away from the CBD as a Shipyards CC would be?

[Steve]

Can anybody show me a CC in a city and density of Jax that is as far away from the CBD as a Shipyards CC would be?

The Georgia International Convention Center in Atlanta - located in between Hartsfield-Jackson Airport and the Rental Car Center*

(I put a "*" by this because Atlanta also has the Georgia World Congress Center that is right by CNN Center/Georgia Dome/Centennial Olympic Park.

[Steve]

Can anybody show me a CC in a city and density of Jax that is as far away from the CBD as a Shipyards CC would be?

Despite my comment, I agree with you - mainly because it's a lot easier in a city like Jacksonville to locate a convention center next to a 1,000 room hotel than to get someone else to build a 1,000 room hotel.

[Jim]

Can anybody show me a CC in a city and density of Jax that is as far away from the CBD as a Shipyards CC would be?

The Georgia International Convention Center in Atlanta - located in between Hartsfield-Jackson Airport and the Rental Car Center*

(I put a "*" by this because Atlanta also has the Georgia World Congress Center that is right by CNN Center/Georgia Dome/Centennial Olympic Park.

Steve, you need a ** too because Jax certainly is not the same size and density as Atlanta.

[thelakelander]

Atlanta is a huge sunbelt sprawler. In reality, Jax's urban area is probably denser than Atlanta's. Atlanta is just at a totally different scale. With that said, I'm sure if we'd search hard enough, we could find another poor example of a struggling CC a mile away from everything. However, until I hear something different from credible sources, I'm going to stick with the rumor that the latest discussion is involving a CC at the courthouse site and not the Shipyards.

[RattlerGator]

Honestly, who (beyond the density freaks -- and you knows who you be -- right?) gives a damn if the convention center is in the Sports and Entertainment district or at the old Courthouse? Get it built !!!

Damn, y'all can overthink shiznit with the best of them. I'm sure the appropriate parties will do their due diligence and have a plan for making it work wherever the hell it's built. Subsudizing it is in the offing anyway, isn't it ? ? ?

We've moved from Tacachale bellowing not this shiznit again to multiple folks now openly speculating about the very real possibility of a public-private partnership making something happen. That's progress on the board, I presume, but . . . damn.

[thelakelander]

Lol, anyone interested in not wasting tax dollars should take a view towards making sure whatever we do has the best chance to succeed. History shows we end up with expensive white elephants when we throw good money after poorly vetted projects. The Prime Osborn is a great example of what can happen when a public project is too isolated from the things that make those types of facilities a success.

[Jim]

Honestly, who (beyond the density freaks -- and you knows who you be -- right?) gives a damn if the convention center is in the Sports and Entertainment district or at the old Courthouse? Get it built !!!

Damn, y'all can overthink shiznit with the best of them. I'm sure the appropriate parties will do their due diligence and have a plan for making it work wherever the hell it's built. Subsudizing it is in the offing anyway, isn't it ? ? ?

We've moved from Tacachale bellowing not this shiznit again to multiple folks now openly speculating about the very real possibility of a public-private partnership making something happen. That's progress on the board, I presume, but . . . damn.

The 'If you built it, they will come' approach is better than the urban planning and development approach.
Gotcha.

[remc86007]

I'm sure the appropriate parties will do their due diligence and have a plan for making it work wherever the hell it's built.

Imagine the city we would be living in if that assumption were true for the past 60 years.

[Tacachale]

Honestly, who (beyond the density freaks -- and you knows who you be -- right?) gives a damn if the convention center is in the Sports and Entertainment district or at the old Courthouse? Get it built !!!

Damn, y'all can overthink shiznit with the best of them. I'm sure the appropriate parties will do their due diligence and have a plan for making it work wherever the hell it's built. Subsudizing it is in the offing anyway, isn't it ? ? ?

We've moved from Tacachale bellowing not this shiznit again to multiple folks now openly speculating about the very real possibility of a public-private partnership making something happen. That's progress on the board, I presume, but . . . damn.

To be clear, my "not this shit again" comment was directed at your (repeated) comments about the president giving us money to demolish the Hart Bridge ramps out of his still elusive infrastructure budget, not the convention center. Not that I want to I want to get us talking about that shit again

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Common Sense 101 - Budget the $8M for demolition.

Include that demo is included in the RFP, but won't happen until certain benchmarks are met in planning, design & FINANCING from the winning developer.

It's still not 100% guaranteed that we won't end up with another un-planned, sodded parking lot in the heart of downtown, but at least we're not completely shooting ourselves in the foot.  (again)

[RattlerGator]

The 'If you built it, they will come' approach is better than the urban planning and development approach.
Gotcha.

No, the equivalence of Shad Khan and his team *and* their clearly demonstrated juice (and wisdom) with the uninspired people who did the Prime Osborn Convention Center wishful thinking is the deal with me.

You think you can follow that now?

I mean, what has Shad done here that has turned into a disappointment? Or uninspired. Apparently, all some of y'all can do is remain trapped in the past. Gotcha.

But by all means, do babble on . . . density, density, density !!!

[RattlerGator]

To be clear, my "not this shit again" comment was directed at your (repeated) comments about the president giving us money to demolish the Hart Bridge ramps out of his still elusive infrastructure budget, not the convention center. Not that I want to I want to get us talking about that shit again

Dance that jigaboo, bwah, dance !!!