The Landing owners issue ultimatum for future development

[thelakelander]

Sleiman Enterprises released a letter Thursday morning that warns the iconic Jacksonville landmark is at a crossroads.

"We are now at a critical point in the Landing's life cycle," the letter reads. "We must either undertake a complete redevelopment of the property or enter into new long-term leases of the current facilities to maintain the Landing's economic viability. The two options are incompatible with one another."

Sleiman Enterprises bought the Jacksonville Landing in 2003 from the original developers of the property. The Landing opened in 1987. Since Sleiman Enterprises bought the property, the company has pushed for redevelopment.

However, efforts have not been successful with the most recent attempt falling apart in a legal dispute over whether proper documents were signed to transfer ownership of a Downtown parking garage. That lawsuit, brought by the city, is still in court.

Full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2017/06/15/the-landing-owners-issue-ultimatum-for-future.html

[Jim]

Putting the ball in the city's 'court', as it were.

[KenFSU]

I know money is perpetually tight, and Sleiman's gonna Sleiman, but it does seem like a really good time to start thinking about the future of the Landing. With the Laura Street Trio and Barnett finally entering permitting, it would be great to see movement on the Landing. These two projects combined have the potential to be truly catalytic for that entire corridor.

[Downtown Osprey]

And around and around we go. 

[thelakelander]

What's full redevelopment? 

A. The plan with the building/Main Street Bridge demolished and replaced with something completely new

B. Renovation of the existing configuration

Would renovation of the existing structure and change in tenant mix, like Norfolk's Waterside District, be considered full redevelopment? 

Waterside Marketplace Before:







Waterside District Now:

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

The fact that we have development quickening on both the northbank, the southbank, Brooklyn, La Villa and the stadium complex with no fucking clue on how to tie them all in tells me that we're really no better off than we were 10 years ago. 

Some great ideas.  A lot of money being invested.  But without a plan to tie everything together and create synergy between them, we'll end up with some great ideas that never reached full potential.  A lot of wasted investment money.  And still no plan on what needs to be done to bring the city to life.

Sorry to be the Negative Nancy on this one, but I personally don't see any reason to be happy about the long-term.  Short-term we'll do fine.  What happens when some of the new wears off?

[FlaBoy]

Lakelander is right that there are ways to redevelop the current set up that would be cost effective in the short term. The blue print is out there already across the country. Let's get the dirt churning on Laura St. and then we can talk convention center and Landing. One thing is certain: there needs to be a major facelift/rebranding of the venue one way or another.

[JeffreyS]

The fact that we have development quickening on both the northbank, the southbank, Brooklyn, La Villa and the stadium complex with no fucking clue on how to tie them all in tells me that we're really no better off than we were 10 years ago. 

Some great ideas.  A lot of money being invested.  But without a plan to tie everything together and create synergy between them, we'll end up with some great ideas that never reached full potential.  A lot of wasted investment money.  And still no plan on what needs to be done to bring the city to life.

Sorry to be the Negative Nancy on this one, but I personally don't see any reason to be happy about the long-term.  Short-term we'll do fine.  What happens when some of the new wears off?

Right now i think we just need to concentrate on making sure Riverside, Brooklyn and La Villa continue to link.  I live in Avondale and we are in Brooklyn all the time anchored by use of the YMCA. Dinner in 5 points and a trip to the Hyppo is not uncommon. We have a few items we hit Fresh Market for though most of the shopping is Publix.

[KenFSU]

What's full redevelopment? 

A. The plan with the building/Main Street Bridge demolished and replaced with something completely new

B. Renovation of the existing configuration

Would renovation of the existing structure and change in tenant mix, like Norfolk's Waterside District, be considered full redevelopment?

Personally, I don't think the existing Landing needs the wrecking ball. It's iconic, structurally sound, and full of potential with a little TLC.

I really do love the idea of opening up Laura Street to the water, and converting the Landing into a food hall & market, hyper-focused on local foods. You're not going to draw many people down to the Landing with a Hooters, American Cafe, or even something like a Cheesecake Factory. But if you make the Landing a showcase space for the best local or semi-local restaurants (think Safe Harbor, Taco Lu, M Shack, 4 Rivers, Hawkers, Clark's, Metro Diner, Maple Street, etc.), coffee shops (Brew, Vagabond, Urban Grind, Bold Bean), breweries (Bold City, Engine 15, Intuition, Ardwolf, Veterans United, etc.) and other artisans (Peterbrooke, etc.), I genuinely think it gives the place an actual value proposition. Throw in tons of outside seating and balcony space overlooking the river and allow open containers anywhere on Landing property, and I think you create a unique space exclusive to downtown that is worth traveling to while we ride downtown's continued residential growth.

Further, the Landing is typically one of the first places that tourists visit when they come to Jacksonville and I really think a local food hall concept makes it representative of our city. Lori Boyer is also pushing for a first-class visitor center and museum to showcase Jacksonville (http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2017-06-14/tourism-council-wants-visitor-center-jacksonville), what better spot than the Landing? Emphasize the water taxi tours. Program the courtyard with local musicians. Really make the Landing a literal landing for tourists to get a feel for Jacksonville and instill pride in locals.

There's also plenty of room for expansion even with the existing structure in place. Residential can be added on both sides as the market dictates, preferably with ground level restaurants (even better with rooftop bars).

I wonder what specifically Sleiman is looking for from the city. I know Alvin Brown's Landing redevelopment called for a $12 million taxpayer subsidy for a total redesign.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Right now i think we just need to concentrate on making sure Riverside, Brooklyn and La Villa continue to link.  I live in Avondale and we are in Brooklyn all the time anchored by use of the YMCA. Dinner in 5 points and a trip to the Hyppo is not uncommon. We have a few items we hit Fresh Market for though most of the shopping is Publix.

And I agree with you, but there's a bigger picture that no one seems to be paying any attention to.  And even in our own backyard (I live in Murray Hill) there seems to be so much disconnect.  When things happen, it appears to be by chance as opposed to a guided decision. 

And regarding Brooklyn, how many years ago did they take all of that land in order to provide a wider thoroughfare through the area?  12?  15 years ago?  And now that there is a spark of development, what's the current discussion?  Let's have a discussion about narrowing the corridor to make it a more walkable area...  I'm seriously just WTF... WTF with all of this let's rip shit out so that we can go back 20 years later and rip more shit out again.  Which points back to my feeling that there is no long-term plan. 

[FlaBoy]

What's full redevelopment? 

A. The plan with the building/Main Street Bridge demolished and replaced with something completely new

B. Renovation of the existing configuration

Would renovation of the existing structure and change in tenant mix, like Norfolk's Waterside District, be considered full redevelopment?

Personally, I don't think the existing Landing needs the wrecking ball. It's iconic, structurally sound, and full of potential with a little TLC.

I really do love the idea of opening up Laura Street to the water, and converting the Landing into a food hall & market, hyper-focused on local foods. You're not going to draw many people down to the Landing with a Hooters, American Cafe, or even something like a Cheesecake Factory. But if you make the Landing a showcase space for the best local or semi-local restaurants (think Safe Harbor, Taco Lu, M Shack, 4 Rivers, Hawkers, Clark's, Metro Diner, Maple Street, etc.), coffee shops (Brew, Vagabond, Urban Grind, Bold Bean), breweries (Bold City, Engine 15, Intuition, Ardwolf, Veterans United, etc.) and other artisans (Peterbrooke, etc.), I genuinely think it gives the place an actual value proposition. Throw in tons of outside seating and balcony space overlooking the river and allow open containers anywhere on Landing property, and I think you create a unique space exclusive to downtown that is worth traveling to while we ride downtown's continued residential growth.

Further, the Landing is typically one of the first places that tourists visit when they come to Jacksonville and I really think a local food hall concept makes it representative of our city. Lori Boyer is also pushing for a first-class visitor center and museum to showcase Jacksonville (http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2017-06-14/tourism-council-wants-visitor-center-jacksonville), what better spot than the Landing? Emphasize the water taxi tours. Program the courtyard with local musicians. Really make the Landing a literal landing for tourists to get a feel for Jacksonville and instill pride in locals.

There's also plenty of room for expansion even with the existing structure in place. Residential can be added on both sides as the market dictates, preferably with ground level restaurants (even better with rooftop bars).

I wonder what specifically Sleiman is looking for from the city. I know Alvin Brown's Landing redevelopment called for a $12 million taxpayer subsidy for a total redesign.

Agreed here. I have thought a long time that a museum of some sort would make a lot of sense in there or a nice welcome center and the food hall would also make a lot of sense which you can also mix with other funky Jacksonville based artisan stores.

[BenderRodriguez]

The fact that we have development quickening on both the northbank, the southbank, Brooklyn, La Villa and the stadium complex with no fucking clue on how to tie them all in tells me that we're really no better off than we were 10 years ago. 

Some great ideas.  A lot of money being invested.  But without a plan to tie everything together and create synergy between them, we'll end up with some great ideas that never reached full potential.  A lot of wasted investment money.  And still no plan on what needs to be done to bring the city to life.

Sorry to be the Negative Nancy on this one, but I personally don't see any reason to be happy about the long-term.  Short-term we'll do fine.  What happens when some of the new wears off?

The Landing itself is a very good example of this very problem. It was a good idea when conceived, but lost a lot of its allure very quickly and has been struggling ever since due to poor foresight and integration with its surroundings. Bayside Marketplace in Miami and New Orleans Riverwalk, both built by the same developer (Rouse Co.) and opened in '86 and '87 respectively have been thriving ever since. Why is that?

[edjax]

The fact that we have development quickening on both the northbank, the southbank, Brooklyn, La Villa and the stadium complex with no fucking clue on how to tie them all in tells me that we're really no better off than we were 10 years ago. 

Some great ideas.  A lot of money being invested.  But without a plan to tie everything together and create synergy between them, we'll end up with some great ideas that never reached full potential.  A lot of wasted investment money.  And still no plan on what needs to be done to bring the city to life.

Sorry to be the Negative Nancy on this one, but I personally don't see any reason to be happy about the long-term.  Short-term we'll do fine.  What happens when some of the new wears off?

The Landing itself is a very good example of this very problem. It was a good idea when conceived, but lost a lot of its allure very quickly and has been struggling ever since due to poor foresight and integration with its surroundings. Bayside Marketplace in Miami and New Orleans Riverwalk, both built by the same developer (Rouse Co.) and opened in '86 and '87 respectively have been thriving ever since. Why is that?

I would say for those two cities tourism plays a much more significant role

[pears045]

The landmark directly across the river on the Southbank is just as bad.  I had a convention for work last fall at the Hyatt and I decided to take my wife and stay at the Double Tree on the Southbank for a "staycation", and go to the Jags game.  We have been season ticket holders for years and always tailgate with friends in the parking lot.  We decided to get up and go to River City Brewing Company for brunch and to pre-game in the core.  RCBC was a joke and is completely outdated.  That place has so much potential, its insane.  The landing was dead and there wasn't even a single sign for our hometown team anywhere on the property.  The whole area just seems so disconnected and completely dated.  It's a shame that I tell every person I know who is coming to visit Jacksonville to stay at the beaches and avoid downtown. 

I have some of the best memories of boating with my parents down there while growing up in the late 80's and early 90's.  The landing was always packed.  There were tons of boats lining the docks and people partying at Fat Tuesdays and kids playing in the Ostrich Arcade.  I can remember RCBC hosting the Jags Tuesday night show in the late 90's and there always being a big crowd for that.  The core is lost.             

[Keith-N-Jax]

Miami and New Orleans are flooded with tourist, they keep those places going. The Landing is a holiday spot for locals only, ie 4th July, Christmas and so on when it should be packed every weekend. There's a huge gap between Brooklyn to DT core and DT core to stadium district where you have nothing in between. But until the residents of Jax and surrounding areas see DT as a destination filled with things to do, not much will change.