Jackson Square Controversy Brewing

[southerngirl]

And, I really don't think you give the Planning Dept. enough credit...if they are in agreement with harden, its because they have a good planning reason....like connectivity!

That would be the employees of the Jacksonville Planning Dept?  The same ones who have been told by their bosses that they can no longer accept Harden's invites to his suite at the Jags games? 

Sure.  Their motives are all about connectivity -- TO PAUL HARDEN.

[tufsu1]

I know quite a few of the PD staff...and they are good, honest people....

If there's something fishy going on, its above the staff level.

[Charles Hunter]

I know quite a few of the PD staff...and they are good, honest people....

If there's something fishy going on, its above the staff level.

Bingo!

[southerngirl]

Jackson Square PUD was approved by LUZ Committee last night with some amendments, but NOT the one that the Planning Commissioners so thoughtfully advocated and unanimously voted for (restricting access to River Oaks Road), which was intended to protect and save the small neighborhood nearby.

It's truly disappointing to see the LUZ Committee deny the Planning Commission's recommendation and throw this existing stable neighborhood into traffic hell, all for this development. The agent and his henchmen from Planning made up absolutely BOGUS traffic numbers -- they kept repeating that their models (NO TRAFFIC STUDY HAS BEEN DONE) showed only 20 cars at peak hour - you mean to tell me between 900 apartments and 350,000 sq ft of retail/commercial space they only expect 20 cars to want to use River Oaks to get to San Jose, Mandarin, Clay County??

Also, while they were arguing that there will only be this handful of cars affecting River Oaks Road, when asked by Joost why, then, they NEEDED River Oaks Road since such a small number would be using it, Harden turned it around and said that they should not deny San Marco people the access to the development from River Oaks.  That's when the 800+ average daily cars use number sneaks in.

WHICH IS IT, PAUL and SEAN KELLY?  Will there be cars or won't there? YOU CANNOT HAVE THIS BOTH WAYS.

It's an absolute INSULT to the neighbors and to the retailers and commercial space owners to try to make ANYONE believe that only 20 cars will use River Oaks Road. This process was rigged from the get-go, as Harden kept deferring to Sean Kelly throughout the proceeding, and Sean Kelly kept toting Harden's water for him.  Obscene.

[civil42806]

Jackson Square PUD was approved by LUZ Committee last night with some amendments, but NOT the one that the Planning Commissioners so thoughtfully advocated and unanimously voted for (restricting access to River Oaks Road), which was intended to protect and save the small neighborhood nearby.

It's truly disappointing to see the LUZ Committee deny the Planning Commission's recommendation and throw this existing stable neighborhood into traffic hell, all for this development. The agent and his henchmen from Planning made up absolutely BOGUS traffic numbers -- they kept repeating that their models (NO TRAFFIC STUDY HAS BEEN DONE) showed only 20 cars at peak hour - you mean to tell me between 900 apartments and 350,000 sq ft of retail/commercial space they only expect 20 cars to want to use River Oaks to get to San Jose, Mandarin, Clay County??

Also, while they were arguing that there will only be this handful of cars affecting River Oaks Road, when asked by Joost why, then, they NEEDED River Oaks Road since such a small number would be using it, Harden turned it around and said that they should not deny San Marco people the access to the development from River Oaks.  That's when the 800+ average daily cars use number sneaks in.

WHICH IS IT, PAUL and SEAN KELLY?  Will there be cars or won't there? YOU CANNOT HAVE THIS BOTH WAYS.

It's an absolute INSULT to the neighbors and to the retailers and commercial space owners to try to make ANYONE believe that only 20 cars will use River Oaks Road. This process was rigged from the get-go, as Harden kept deferring to Sean Kelly throughout the proceeding, and Sean Kelly kept toting Harden's water for him.  Obscene.

Unfortunately this is the standard operating procedure for the city.  They are more than willing to throw a nice neighborhood under the bus, to ensure that the right people make a mint.  The only hope is with the down turn in the economy the whole plan may be dumpe.

[Ocklawaha]

While I feel the pain of those that think they are being buried by the city, I really don't think anything evil is in the works at Jackson Square.

TOD, YES! Very possible from a rail - bus or BRT angle, even remotely the Skyway too.

River Oaks Drama? I think so, only because I have lived in Jax on and off for over a half century including Powers, San Jose, San Marco, Philips and Mandarin. We have always loved to shop et San Marco Village, know all the back streets and even took The Lakelander to see "Oriental Gardens". In all those years of moving about the neighborhood, I have never once "needed" River Oaks. In fact my first trip on it was after this thread took off. The neighbors should ask for a traffic survey, or do a volunteer one, get the drivers that pass simply to tell you what part of town they started their trip in and what part they are going to. I think, in fact would bet that your "traffic troubles" is about 90% locals from the neighborhood. Even if I live at Jackson Square (and I might), I wouldn't use that route to San Marco when Philips takes me to Atlantic. If I have a train or bus, forget driving, I'm riding.

OCKLAWAHA

[JeffreyS]

At least install speed bumps.

[cline]

It's an absolute INSULT to the neighbors and to the retailers and commercial space owners to try to make ANYONE believe that only 20 cars will use River Oaks Road.

If you do not have confidence in their traffic numbers then you and your neighbors should have hired a consultant to perform an independent study for your own comparison and to show the LUZ.  I disagree with your conclusion that River Oaks Road will carry the majority of the project traffic, most traffic will load on to Philips Highway.

[southerngirl]

The cut-through traffic we have is NOT San Marco traffic alone...trust me, I see it ALL DAY every day. 

The problems stem from the traffic coming from Philips to River Oaks to Hendricks, then heading south to San Jose, Mandarin, Clay County...all these folks with kids at Bishop Kenney and Douglas Anderson. All these people who've learned how convenient the access to 95 is just 1/2 mile north of the River Oaks cut through.

A city study two years ago on this street said that it was overburdened already and made the railroad crossing dangerous. The addition of Jackson Square traffic will only make the problem worse.

Speed bumps aren't the solution. As Sean Kelly himself said at the LUZ meeting, emergency vehicles do not like speed humps.

The solution now is to close the railroad crossing at River Oaks, thus stopping the traffic issue altogether. FDOT is in favor, as is FEC Railroad, which owns the crossing. I'm SURE all you rail fans out there know that railroads will tell the best crossing is a closed one.  We agree.

[Ocklawaha]

Southern Girl, While speed bumps will only slow down the same amount of cars that choose to use the street, rather then the total amount of cars that choose to use the street. I still doubt that 20 people a day would use River Oaks from Jackson Square. WHY? What is on San Jose that they can't reach quicker on Beach or Atlantic or I-95, or Philips, or JTB? They sure won't shop in Mandarin. They won't work there either. To get to NAS, it's quicker to use Roosevelt from I-95/I-10. While I understand the Bolles Crowd sneaking through to GET to Beach/Atlantic or 95, I don't see the reverse. These Jackson Square folks aren't going to crash your street to get over to Bolles.

The solution now is to close the railroad crossing at River Oaks, thus stopping the traffic issue altogether. FDOT is in favor, as is FEC Railroad, which owns the crossing. I'm SURE all you rail fans out there know that railroads will tell the best crossing is a closed one.  We agree.

In this you are 100% correct - "THE ONLY GOOD CROSSING IS A CLOSED CROSSING!"  Now here is an angle you can work with both the City, State and FEC. I'd call their legal dept and have a chat. They and the City get CASH for closing those crossings. Maybe enough to equip FEC park with all the nice perks of other parks. usually 5,000-10,000 dollars per crossing.

Hope you understand, I really don't have a "side" in this, just want to help get both... A bright new development in a very blighted area of Philips, and happy neighbors across the tracks.

OCKLAWAHA

[southerngirl]

ock -- since this brouhaha started, I've been very impressed with your knowledge and advocacy for real improvements to this city, and I regret anything I've written that might indicate otherwise. This is an emotional issue as well as a logistical one. Those of us who love this neighborhood with all our hearts just want to be sure that the development (that we have come to see as necessary and good) is done in a way that not only respects the fact that we're here and we have been here making this area viable, but actually acts in a way that shows that respect.

Thanks for your advice on the rr crossing. We've got the application (and signed petitions in favor of closure) in with FDOT already, they're fully-supportive as is FEC. In fact, the FEC rep has been the most responsive, helpful person we've encountered in this whole mess. (Love me some RR people...I spent a bit of time working for one of the majors). Councilman Shad went on the record at the LUZ meeting saying he supports closure, so now we're going to have to get the rest of the City bigs on board.  Ideas?

- SG

[Ocklawaha]

Yeah, a big dog that might help too. OPERATION LIFE SAVER. Call any railroad for the rep. they might help. I've got a meeting with JTA in a few, but keep in touch, I'll add more later. Also I'll scan some industry magazines to check sources for you.

Meanwhile call the City manager, CITY OF KINGFISHER, OKLAHOMA. I was a councilman at nearby tiny CASHION. Kingfisher is a town about like Starke - with a distinct twist, it honest to God looks like they polish the streets every day. Busy and near perfect. They closed 3-4 crossings on the Union Pacific (former Rock Island) and got a check that rebuilt the city parks/pool and all. You might also talk to OK DOT in OKC, ask about the crossing closures and get the case file. I know this because the manager at Kingfisher and I redesigned the whole park (which is HUGE).

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

It's an absolute INSULT to the neighbors and to the retailers and commercial space owners to try to make ANYONE believe that only 20 cars will use River Oaks Road.

If you do not have confidence in their traffic numbers then you and your neighbors should have hired a consultant to perform an independent study for your own comparison and to show the LUZ.  I disagree with your conclusion that River Oaks Road will carry the majority of the project traffic, most traffic will load on to Philips Highway.

I agree Cline...your reasoning is very sound...almost as if you are a transportation planner 

[christiesbarker]

My problem is that with there already being a capacity problem at Hendricks Avenue Elementary School that the building of these units will impact the school even more. There should be a consideration by the city, school board and the developer that any elementary age children be slated to attend Spring Park Elementary School. Currently Spring Park Elementary is only using 46% of it's school's utilization because of low enrollment, Hendricks Avenue Elementary school is at 115%.

[thelakelander]

San Marco project before Jacksonville City Council

Despite vocal opposition from some San Marco residents, the City Council is poised to approve a new development that supporters said will help revitalize the northern Philips Highway corridor.

The proposed Jackson Square project will include up to 900 apartments. There will be up to 200,000 square feet of office space and 150,000 square feet of retail use. The 17-acre development would be on the west side of Philips Highway south of Atlantic Boulevard.

full article: http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/101408/met_343654919.shtml