City will seek Proposals for Shipyards + Met Park Combined Development

[edjax]

Yes. City still responsible for most part. Stephanie Brown on WOKVhas a pretty thourough story posted about the various bids.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Yes. City still responsible for most part. Stephanie Brown on WOKVhas a pretty thourough story posted about the various bids.

http://www.wokv.com/news/local/shipyards-riverfront-redevelopment-proposals-cost-each-hundreds-millions-dollars/UwdVWOLXyWMgk2pG5tpBvO/

[thelakelander]

I can't believe that a large developer that would take this on wouldn't know about this piece of property. These guys have folks that are always scouting opportunities.

I just can't picture them not knowing.

Even if it is not a market they have done business in before and is not a 'hot market' in development circles?

If indeed you are correct, what does it say that so few bid? To me it says they didn't think they had a shot, or it just isn't an appealing project, probably due to the contamination.  If it is the later, how is that being handled with the three that did bid?  Is the city still doing the clean-up? 

If interested, I can't imagine many thinking they would have a real shot, given the history and discussion surrounding the sports district over the last couple of years.

[KenFSU]

I can't believe that a large developer that would take this on wouldn't know about this piece of property. These guys have folks that are always scouting opportunities.

I just can't picture them not knowing.

Even if it is not a market they have done business in before and is not a 'hot market' in development circles?

Absolutely. Even when I worked for a smaller engineering company, we always had at least person whose entire job was to scour procurement pages around the country and flag potential opportunities and RFPs. Something tells me that the major developers around the country didn't rise to prominence by being reactive and sitting around waiting for opportunities to fall into their lap. Plus, Jacksonville is a Top 40 Metro and an NFL city. Even if we're not Miami or Atlanta, we should be on the radar.

[Steve]

If indeed you are correct, what does it say that so few bid? To me it says they didn't think they had a shot, or it just isn't an appealing project, probably due to the contamination.  If it is the later, how is that being handled with the three that did bid?  Is the city still doing the clean-up?

The clean-up would be handled by whoever wins the RFP in a manner agreed to by the city. Obviously, that's a non-answer, but it really is the answer right now.

In terms of desirable project, I do think Jacksonville's economics do play into the lack of desirability. For example, even in markets like Miami, Charlotte, Atlanta, etc. a developer can get a dramatically higher ROI on the property, and the cleanup is part of it. For example, to clean up this type of property in Miami, it would likely cost only slightly more than here (labor rates will be a little higher), but what you develop can be sold or leased for dramatically more, thereby making this a lot more desirable project.

And look, I'm sure there is some aspect where large scale national developers that have the resources to take this probably assume that Khan has the inside track.

[KenFSU]

Interesting to note that even though Iguana's plan calls for the city to pay for cleanup, infrastructure improvements, and relocation of Metro Park, Iguana is willing to advance the city the money to be repaid later.

[vicupstate]

Looking through the WOKV article, it is pretty clear that Khan's proposal is the only serious one, and the others are more Sim City than reality. Khan's proposal means the city is on the hook for remediation, Met Park relocation and infrastructure. The only thing Khan is offering is the 'money advance' that KenFSu mentions. No details on the timing or interest rate of that payback is given.

Unless the terms of Khan' s advance are VERY generous, the city would be better off to do the remediation, build a no frills basic 'replacement' for Met Park and then put out a new RFP.  There would be a lot less uncertainty and thus more interest.  The city could expect much better terms at that point. 

     

[KenFSU]

^Agree to disagree, Vic. Khan is offering more than a money advance. He's offering to buy the land at current market value, appoint a board of local business and community leaders to oversee the project, consult on remediation, and privately bankroll up to $650 million in fast-tracked development. It's a project that makes perfect sense to Khan because it complements his other investments, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to other developers who aren't already heavily vested in the sports complex. This parcel has been in limbo for decades, and at this point, an egg in the hand is worth 10 in the bush, especially if the egg was laid by one of the wealthiest individuals in the world. The city SHOULD be on the hook for remediation, and we've got $13 million just sitting there in the city coffers designated for said remediation. To your point, it would also cost a hell of a lot more money to remediate the property without a development plan in place to remediate around. There's simply no way the city doesn't ROI on a Khan-driven Shipyards development in the long run. It solves a problem we're clearly incapable of solving on our own, strengthens our downtown, activates more of the St. Johns River, provides positive externalities for our entire sports complex, and cements the Jaguars in Jacksonville for a long time to come.

[vicupstate]

^Agree to disagree, Vic. Khan is offering more than a money advance. He's offering to buy the land at current market value, appoint a board of local business and community leaders to oversee the project, consult on remediation, and privately bankroll up to $650 million in fast-tracked development. It's a project that makes perfect sense to Khan because it complements his other investments, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to other developers who aren't already heavily vested in the sports complex. This parcel has been in limbo for decades, and at this point, an egg in the hand is worth 10 in the bush, especially if the egg was laid by one of the wealthiest individuals in the world. The city SHOULD be on the hook for remediation, and we've got $13 million just sitting there in the city coffers designated for said remediation. To your point, it would also cost a hell of a lot more money to remediate the property without a development plan in place to remediate around. There's simply no way the city doesn't ROI on a Khan-driven Shipyards development in the long run. It solves a problem we're clearly incapable of solving on our own, strengthens our downtown, activates more of the St. Johns River, provides positive externalities for our entire sports complex, and cements the Jaguars in Jacksonville for a long time to come.

The Khan plan is $500 mm not $650 mm and nowhere in that article does it say he is 'bankrolling' anything.  EVERY transaction between the Jags and the City has been VERY favorable to the Jags and I would expect this to be the same.  The first phase is basically a Hotel complex with some retail thrown it. You are letting your fantasies take over your judgment, which is what Khan is hoping for.

The purpose of that 'board' is to put him firmly in control, and prevent the typical Coj screw up. The later is a good idea, but I fear the city gets the bill for the cost WITHOUT any control, just like the Stadium itself.

I don't see any savings in remediation either. It will be whatever it is going to be.   

[thelakelander]

Phase 1 construction- to include up to 100 multi-family residential units, a five star hotel with up to 250 rooms and a restaurant, structured parking, more than 75,000 square feet or office/restaurant/retail space, public infrastructure, and associated public space- is estimated to start a little more than two years from now, with project design, approval, zoning and other things needing to fall in place first.

So if everything works out, groundbreaking for Phase 1 would be around Summer 2019.  The hotel is also pretty small for a convention center style hotel, so the issue of what to do with the Prime Osborn may still be floating over Jax's head.

[thelakelander]

Jaguars owner Shad Khan facing stiffer competition for Shipyards this time

Full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2017-04-17/jaguars-owner-shad-khan-facing-stiffer-competition-shipyards-time

[FlaBoy]

Phase 1 construction- to include up to 100 multi-family residential units, a five star hotel with up to 250 rooms and a restaurant, structured parking, more than 75,000 square feet or office/restaurant/retail space, public infrastructure, and associated public space- is estimated to start a little more than two years from now, with project design, approval, zoning and other things needing to fall in place first.

So if everything works out, groundbreaking for Phase 1 would be around Summer 2019.  The hotel is also pretty small for a convention center style hotel, so the issue of what to do with the Prime Osborn may still be floating over Jax's head.

I think it definitely will. I think this would help push the consensus towards the old Courthouse site...

[KenFSU]

Phase 1 construction- to include up to 100 multi-family residential units, a five star hotel with up to 250 rooms and a restaurant, structured parking, more than 75,000 square feet or office/restaurant/retail space, public infrastructure, and associated public space- is estimated to start a little more than two years from now, with project design, approval, zoning and other things needing to fall in place first.

So if everything works out, groundbreaking for Phase 1 would be around Summer 2019.  The hotel is also pretty small for a convention center style hotel, so the issue of what to do with the Prime Osborn may still be floating over Jax's head.

I think it definitely will. I think this would help push the consensus towards the old Courthouse site...

The Times-Union mentioned a 500 room hotel in the above article.

That's, by far, the highest number I've seen quoted.

Wonder if that was an error.

[DrQue]

I cringe everytime I see the "Jobs Factory" slogan.

[Captain Zissou]

Is Gainesville going to start to compete with Jacksonville for convention business?

http://businessmagazinegainesville.com/developer-proposes-conference-center-west-uf/

Along with the established Hilton space, the proposed conference center would bring the total square footage of meeting room space in the area to 75,000 square feet — effectively tripling the event space currently offered at the Hilton.