Florida Coastal Law School long-term plans

[remc86007]

Fewer lawyers are needed in the short-run, but that won't always be the case. I hope during this time when fewer law grads are needed, that the low LSAT potential students are discouraged from attending, not the high LSAT potential students. Law school should attract the best and brightest regardless of the student's ability to pay for school.

[Tacachale]

To be fair, we could probably do with fewer lawyers. So maybe fewer law schools is a good thing.

That is true regardless of where the schools are!

[jaxjags]

So I guess those ambitious plans to relocate to downtown are DOA?

Maybe not. How about a down sizing, moving the campus to DT, becoming past of UF law school as the "urban campus". It works for UF Health and the med school uses the DT hospital as the med school's urban campus.

[Adam White]

Fewer lawyers are needed in the short-run, but that won't always be the case. I hope during this time when fewer law grads are needed, that the low LSAT potential students are discouraged from attending, not the high LSAT potential students. Law school should attract the best and brightest regardless of the student's ability to pay for school.

There certainly will always be a need for lawyers. But it's reasonable (I think) to say the market is over saturated now. I agree that the best and brightest should attend law schools - and I'd like to see people being able to leave law school and work in a legal field.

[thelakelander]

So I guess those ambitious plans to relocate to downtown are DOA?

Maybe not. How about a down sizing, moving the campus to DT, becoming past of UF law school as the "urban campus". It works for UF Health and the med school uses the DT hospital as the med school's urban campus.

I can't imagine UF wanting anything to do with Florida Coastal.  If they wanted an urban campus in downtown Jax, they don't need Florida Coastal for that.

[Jimmy]

There are smart and hard working people in all walks of life. FCSL is close to being done. 125 students in their 1L class? Think about that from the 600-700 they had just 5 years ago. The legal education business has tanked and I doubt JU or any other college in the area would like to deal with it all. Look at Barry Law who is in an all out free fall as well in Orlando. However, that would be great news for UF and FSU moving forward.

There should be six law schools in Florida:

UF (ranked #41)
FSU (ranked #48)
Miami (ranked #70)
Stetson (ranked #98)
FIU (ranked #102)
FAMU (not ranked)

The rest are truly superfluous in this new legal market post-Great Recession.

I agree with this.  While I have friends who are quite successful having attended FCSL (in the early 2000s), the quality hasn't been there. 

There are too many law schools in Florida.  Ave Maria, Barry, Cooley, Coastal -- they're all superfluous. In reality, a couple more might be superfluous, but these are the four I would put at-risk.

The unfortunate reality in the legal profession is too many lawyers exist and hundreds more flood the market (in Florida) each year.  Advances in technology (for both pro se people and lawyers) means more work gets pushed to computer-based resources and fewer person-hours are needed.  Obviously, some subsets within the law will be impacted less by machine-based work product.  Litigators, appellate lawyers.  But others will be replaced completely, or so near to completely to mean we don't need human being lawyers reading every page of discovery when OCR and a heuristic algorithm can get the same job done.  I tell very few people to go to law school.  Unless there's a family connection, a deep burning desire to be a low-paid do-gooder... well, yeah.  Those are the only two groups of people for whom I believe the time and expense of law school would be beneficial. 

Nursing school, however.  That's where it's at.

[FlaBoy]

So I guess those ambitious plans to relocate to downtown are DOA?

I have some very good info on this and they arent necessarily done, but they can't find anyone to take their Baymeadows lease, which is the first thing that has to happen. Until someone will agree to take their lease, they are effectively stuck out there.  It was a poor choice of location to begin with, and very short-sighted to locate out there, in my opinion.

How long is their lease for?

[FlaBoy]

So I guess those ambitious plans to relocate to downtown are DOA?

I have some very good info on this and they arent necessarily done, but they can't find anyone to take their Baymeadows lease, which is the first thing that has to happen. Until someone will agree to take their lease, they are effectively stuck out there.  It was a poor choice of location to begin with, and very short-sighted to locate out there, in my opinion.

How long is their lease for?

Not sure exactly, but at least 10 more years and I want to say it may be as long as 20 or more years.

Who would ever take a 10 year lease from them, never mind a 20 year lease

[ProjectMaximus]

So I guess those ambitious plans to relocate to downtown are DOA?

I have some very good info on this and they arent necessarily done, but they can't find anyone to take their Baymeadows lease, which is the first thing that has to happen. Until someone will agree to take their lease, they are effectively stuck out there.  It was a poor choice of location to begin with, and very short-sighted to locate out there, in my opinion.

How long is their lease for?

Not sure exactly, but at least 10 more years and I want to say it may be as long as 20 or more years.

Who would ever take a 10 year lease from them, never mind a 20 year lease

20 months ago the report said 16 years left on the lease. https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=546035
Of course they also claimed the school is "doing very well" at the time. 
I can't believe it's been 20 months already since Metrojacksonville first broke the news that "Florida Coastal School of Law to Relocate Downtown" 

[FlaBoy]

If the city of Jacksonville would like to give UF some free space downtown, they may make something work in bringing 2L and 3L students here especially with the rise of experiential learning and adjuncts. 1L will always be in Gainesville.

[Jimmy]

Physical space for experiential learning is already in place downtown. Lots of law students from UF and FSU spend summers in law firms, courts, SA/PD, and at legal aid. I earned 12 credits for my externship at legal aid from FSU during my 3L year.

Gainesville and Tallahassee have plenty of volunteer opportunities during the school year. Jacksonville law students tend to come home for summer clerking and externships. Technology is making distance volunteering possible. Communities and law schools are holding legal hacksthons.

[RattlerGator]

If the city of Jacksonville would like to give UF some free space downtown, they may make something work in bringing 2L and 3L students here especially with the rise of experiential learning and adjuncts. 1L will always be in Gainesville.

I've said before the city needs to embrace something of a loss-leader mentality and get as many upper division and graduate students downtown as possible. This FSCJ stuff? Good Lord, don't get me started on that.

There could be a very creative interaction with, for instance, the Jessie Ball duPont Center and a similar interaction with UF Health. Hell, FSU got a medical school by promising to focus in nontraditional and underserved areas. Couldn't downtown Jax be a hub for them to fan out around Northeast Florida and do so? Didn't their well-funded entrepreneurship school just open up operations in Jax?

UNF *should* be thinking like this (or at least publicly exploring it), contemplating a partnership with the city, and planning something right now -- perhaps in conjunction with UF and FSU. But get the kids downtown!

[thelakelander]

Hahaha, still hating on FSCJ?  We ought to give them a pat on the back.  While everyone is dreaming about all these other schools that aren't coming, they're actively dumping millions into the Northbank and plan to invest more.  Them desiring, investing in and growing a student population base living in the Northbank is a very important thing that should not be overlooked.

[remc86007]

^ Agreed. FSCJ is a major contributor to our local economy and should be praised their effort to bring students downtown. Their graduate employment numbers compare favorably to the major Florida universities.  From a purely economic standpoint, taxpayers likely get more bang for their buck from FSCJ than any other college in the city.

[FlaBoy]

Hahaha, still hating on FSCJ?  We ought to give them a pat on the back.  While everyone is dreaming about all these other schools that aren't coming, they're actively dumping millions into the Northbank and plan to invest more.  Them desiring, investing in and growing a student population base living in the Northbank is a very important thing that should not be overlooked.

One idea that could make some real sense would be for FSCJ to focus more of its 4 year degree programs downtown like business and nursing. I know they go with demand in meeting the needs of the city but moving their technical school aspects elsewhere in favor of students that may live DT would make sense. But especially for the 18-21 crowd that may be looking for a more authentic college experience, there are ways to enhance FSCJ downtown. An easy way would be to encourage students in the 2+2 FSCJ-UNF Program to do their two years at FSCJ on campus downtown as the easiest pipeline towards UNF. FSCJ Downtown could basically be the home of that program and focus on that program, rather than the technical career type programs currently downtown.