Florida Coastal Law School long-term plans

[remc86007]

In the article by the Daily Record today regarding Florida Coastal's struggles, the dean told the Record that the long-term goal of the school is to "convert to a nonprofit entity" and to "join with a nonprofit university that makes sense for our students."

Does anyone know what local nonprofit university would take them? Delaney said on the Melissa Ross show several weeks ago that UNF was not interested. JU seems like the only school with the money needed to turn the law school around, but why would they want to? It seems to me that Jacksonville will be better off if Florida Coastal closes since they don't seem to be improving anymore and their graduates are not receiving a good education despite obtaining $100k+ debt.

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=549693

[RiversideRambler]

their graduates are not receiving a good education despite obtaining $100k+ debt.

I disagree with this. I graduated in 2012 so it was before things got really bad for the school. However, like most schools it presents students with an opportunity and it was incumbent upon the students to take advantage of those opportunities. Some students did, some students didn't. Every law student in the state is using what are essentially the same text books and my professors were all highly qualified for their individual subject so my educational opportunities in the classroom were on par with that of every law school in the state. Things may have changed but I hope you don't judge all students or alumni negatively.

If you want to argue that the best learning is done outside of the classroom and in the real world then you've got a good argument against Florida Coastal. We certainly did not have the opportunities through clerkships that you could get at FSU/UF/UM.

[spuwho]

I have several friends who graduated from FCLS and they are doing quite well.

The key to their success was getting jobs in other states with various law firms and then coming back to Florida after they gained a lot of experience.

Makes me think its a Florida reputational issue, not so much the type of student. They see the resume with success at another firm, then they know you arent a fluke.

[remc86007]

Things may have changed but I hope you don't judge all students or alumni negatively.

I certainly don't. I've met brilliant graduates from Florida Coastal, but for every one of those, there are several that seem woefully unprepared.

In my opinion, the admission standards are just too low at FL coastal. I'm sure there are good lawyers with LSATs below 150 and GPAs below 3.0, but considering the legal employment landscape, I think both potential law students and future clients of those law students would be better served if 150 and 3.0 were the average school minimum allowed by the ABA.

[FlaBoy]

There are smart and hard working people in all walks of life. FCSL is close to being done. 125 students in their 1L class? Think about that from the 600-700 they had just 5 years ago. The legal education business has tanked and I doubt JU or any other college in the area would like to deal with it all. Look at Barry Law who is in an all out free fall as well in Orlando. However, that would be great news for UF and FSU moving forward.

There should be six law schools in Florida:

UF (ranked #41)
FSU (ranked #48)
Miami (ranked #70)
Stetson (ranked #98)
FIU (ranked #102)
FAMU (not ranked)

The rest are truly superfluous in this new legal market post-Great Recession.

[finehoe]

Some interesting stats here:  http://law-schools.startclass.com/l/183/Florida-Coastal-School-of-Law

[thelakelander]

So I guess those ambitious plans to relocate to downtown are DOA?

[Tacachale]

There are smart and hard working people in all walks of life. FCSL is close to being done. 125 students in their 1L class? Think about that from the 600-700 they had just 5 years ago. The legal education business has tanked and I doubt JU or any other college in the area would like to deal with it all. Look at Barry Law who is in an all out free fall as well in Orlando. However, that would be great news for UF and FSU moving forward.

There should be six law schools in Florida:

UF (ranked #41)
FSU (ranked #48)
Miami (ranked #70)
Stetson (ranked #98)
FIU (ranked #102)
FAMU (not ranked)

The rest are truly superfluous in this new legal market post-Great Recession.

Ideally there ought to be law schools in the big metro areas to serve students who can't afford to move elsewhere to get their JD. Despite having a job and a fiance, my now brother-in-law had to move to UF 4 days of the week to get his degree and was taken out of the workforce entirely. He and his company didn't consider FCLS a wise investment.

Like our med schools, there's been too little coordination by our public schools to put law schools in the best places or to work around what the private schools offer. They don't have to be tied to the schools that are located there: FAMU's law school is in Orlando and has little to do with the main campus. The Tampa Bay Area is served by the private Stetson law school, but Jax is served only by FCLS.

[remc86007]

^ I agree. We all know it won't happen, but imagine how much better it would be for almost everyone involved if UF law relocated to downtown Jacksonville. Gainesville simply doesn't have the legal industry to take advantage of a T1 law school filled with potential interns/externs. At least Tallahassee has plenty of options in state government and administrative law firms that are willing to train students.

[FlaBoy]

There are smart and hard working people in all walks of life. FCSL is close to being done. 125 students in their 1L class? Think about that from the 600-700 they had just 5 years ago. The legal education business has tanked and I doubt JU or any other college in the area would like to deal with it all. Look at Barry Law who is in an all out free fall as well in Orlando. However, that would be great news for UF and FSU moving forward.

There should be six law schools in Florida:

UF (ranked #41)
FSU (ranked #48)
Miami (ranked #70)
Stetson (ranked #98)
FIU (ranked #102)
FAMU (not ranked)

The rest are truly superfluous in this new legal market post-Great Recession.

Ideally there ought to be law schools in the big metro areas to serve students who can't afford to move elsewhere to get their JD. Despite having a job and a fiance, my now brother-in-law had to move to UF 4 days of the week to get his degree and was taken out of the workforce entirely. He and his company didn't consider FCLS a wise investment.

Like our med schools, there's been too little coordination by our public schools to put law schools in the best places or to work around what the private schools offer. They don't have to be tied to the schools that are located there: FAMU's law school is in Orlando and has little to do with the main campus. The Tampa Bay Area is served by the private Stetson law school, but Jax is served only by FCLS.

Law school is a big decision, and no, not every city should have a legal program because not everyone on whim should be going to law school because it is convenient. Gainesville is close enough to commute to if needed and the law school has been there for nearly 110 years so it wasn't some lack of coordination recently. Maybe we should create better connections between Gainesville and Jacksonville (60 miles from downtown to downtown and only 40 miles from Cecil Commerce) because the premier university in the state is quite close with all the talent this city would like to come, especially in the engineering, business, legal and medical fields.

[remc86007]

^High-speed rail to the Prime Osborn?

[FlaBoy]

^ I agree. We all know it won't happen, but imagine how much better it would be for almost everyone involved if UF law relocated to downtown Jacksonville. Gainesville simply doesn't have the legal industry to take advantage of a T1 law school filled with potential interns/externs. At least Tallahassee has plenty of options in state government and administrative law firms that are willing to train students.

Imagine if the whole University of Florida were here. Jacksonville would be Austin, Texas.  Jacksonville had the opportunity to get UF here but balked at it in 1905. Instead, it came down to Lake City and Gainesville and Gainesville offered free water to the state. As a result, UF was located in Gainesville. Instead, 30 years later Jacksonville created the pre-cursor to JU to fill the role of a college in the city. All of that is ancient history, but creating better connections between Jax and Gainesville (especially with UF Health here) should be a big focus of our future in attracting businesses and jobs to Jacksonville/Northeast Florida. One thing that makes sense, but I have no idea how it works, would be incorporating the Gainesville media market into Jacksonville. Lake City and Palatka are both part of Jacksonville's media market. Gainesville has it's own small media market that is similarly distanced from Melbourne and Orlando (same market) or Tampa and Sarasota (same market). An easier and better highway connection would make sense as well or basically upgrade 301 to that with similar bypasses and limited development along the road. High speed rail between the two isn't happening in our lifetime. Maybe the hyperloop will run from Tampa through Gainesville to here? lol 

[Tacachale]

There are smart and hard working people in all walks of life. FCSL is close to being done. 125 students in their 1L class? Think about that from the 600-700 they had just 5 years ago. The legal education business has tanked and I doubt JU or any other college in the area would like to deal with it all. Look at Barry Law who is in an all out free fall as well in Orlando. However, that would be great news for UF and FSU moving forward.

There should be six law schools in Florida:

UF (ranked #41)
FSU (ranked #48)
Miami (ranked #70)
Stetson (ranked #98)
FIU (ranked #102)
FAMU (not ranked)

The rest are truly superfluous in this new legal market post-Great Recession.

Ideally there ought to be law schools in the big metro areas to serve students who can't afford to move elsewhere to get their JD. Despite having a job and a fiance, my now brother-in-law had to move to UF 4 days of the week to get his degree and was taken out of the workforce entirely. He and his company didn't consider FCLS a wise investment.

Like our med schools, there's been too little coordination by our public schools to put law schools in the best places or to work around what the private schools offer. They don't have to be tied to the schools that are located there: FAMU's law school is in Orlando and has little to do with the main campus. The Tampa Bay Area is served by the private Stetson law school, but Jax is served only by FCLS.

Law school is a big decision, and no, not every city should have a legal program because not everyone on whim should be going to law school because it is convenient. Gainesville is close enough to commute to if needed and the law school has been there for nearly 110 years so it wasn't some lack of coordination recently. Maybe we should create better connections between Gainesville and Jacksonville (60 miles from downtown to downtown and only 40 miles from Cecil Commerce) because the premier university in the state is quite close with all the talent this city would like to come, especially in the engineering, business, legal and medical fields.

Yes, every city should have a law school because that's where our massive and growing population is going, and we should serve our population's needs. It's not a matter of it being "convenient" or people going on a "whim", it's a matter of there being literally no option for living in Jacksonville and attending law school other than FCSL. By contrast, this is possible in literally every other metro area of our size or bigger other than Charlotte, NC, I believe.

Anyone who's ever tried it will tell you that Gainesville isn't really close enough to commute to for most people with a normal schedule. It's 70 miles from Downtown Jacksonville to the UF campus, not 60, and it can take an hour and a half. People in most regions don't routinely drive 70 miles to get to work. Unfortunately, we're well past the point that the prestige universities can meet the needs of our populace on their own.

[Adam White]

To be fair, we could probably do with fewer lawyers. So maybe fewer law schools is a good thing.

[Tacachale]

^ I agree. We all know it won't happen, but imagine how much better it would be for almost everyone involved if UF law relocated to downtown Jacksonville. Gainesville simply doesn't have the legal industry to take advantage of a T1 law school filled with potential interns/externs. At least Tallahassee has plenty of options in state government and administrative law firms that are willing to train students.

Imagine if the whole University of Florida were here. Jacksonville would be Austin, Texas.  Jacksonville had the opportunity to get UF here but balked at it in 1905. Instead, it came down to Lake City and Gainesville and Gainesville offered free water to the state. As a result, UF was located in Gainesville. Instead, 30 years later Jacksonville created the pre-cursor to JU to fill the role of a college in the city.

Not quite. Gainesville was already home to the East Florida Seminary and Lake City was home to the "University of Florida at Lake City", previously Florida Agricultural College. These and several smaller ones were consolidated into a white men's school in 1905. Jacksonville was not really in the running for where the consolidated school would be, the main contenders were always Lake City and Gainesville. Gainesville won out by giving out free water, as you say, but also tens of thousands of dollars in local contributions and hundreds of acres of land. It was also centrally located to the school's population at the time, so better serving the state's population was always a factor in determining where educational institutions should be.

Here's a good blog post with some of that info:

https://ufndnp.wordpress.com/2016/06/06/the-buckman-act-florida-universities/