City will seek Proposals for Shipyards + Met Park Combined Development

[Dapperdan]

New stadium? Hell no; not one hint at all. What could you possibly be talking about, Dapperdan? What part of the presentation? Who was the speaker?

As for the Hart: There's going to be action on that thing coming down, and it's not going to be years down the road.

Incredibly impressive presentation by the Jaguars. Shad Khan just keeps making tracks, and seriously improving our downtown.

It was Mark Lamping. Just as clear as day he showed a graph that showed all the teams that have built a stadium since the Jaguars built theirs. It was 21. He blamed the age of our stadium to low ticket growth. Apparently you weren't watching that part.

[edjax]

New stadium? Hell no; not one hint at all. What could you possibly be talking about, Dapperdan? What part of the presentation? Who was the speaker?

As for the Hart: There's going to be action on that thing coming down, and it's not going to be years down the road.

Incredibly impressive presentation by the Jaguars. Shad Khan just keeps making tracks, and seriously improving our downtown.

It was Mark Lamping. Just as clear as day he showed a graph that showed all the teams that have built a stadium since the Jaguars built theirs. It was 21. He blamed the age of our stadium to low ticket growth. Apparently you weren't watching that part.

I think it was also more about renovations and upgrades. But who really knows. I would guess another 50 million in soon to be requests for the stadium would bump us into the 300 million range of that category included in the presentation.

[KenFSU]

Big fan of Khan, but not gonna lie, for the amount of runway the Jags had to put together a master development proposal, this kind of feels like a minimum viable product. Rightly or wrongly, it almost feels like they slapped it together with the expectation that no one else would bid. The USS Adams isn't even in the same place in all of the renders.

A few thoughts and general comments:

1) Lamping wants to break ground by January 2018.

2) The expo space was positioned as a Phase II of the spa/hotel, not an immediate build.

3) A little crazy that much of the proposed development is predicated on a highway demolition project that isn't even in the FDOT's current five-year plan.

4) I know these renders are more placeholders than concepts of final design, but it feels like there's a lot of wasted space, both horizontal and vertically, particularly with the entertainment zone, which feels very suburban strip mall to me.



5) That's a lot of slips. You've got to think that the Jags see this these as a new revenue stream they can get a cut of.



6) Most of all, I truly dislike what we saw of the park. We already screwed it up once with Met Park. If we're investing 27 acres of prime riverfront property into Jacksonville's signature park, it can't be an empty field of grass with traffic winding through it. I'd hope that the new park would be more feature and landscape rich.





7) Also, political pandering is nice, but let's not name this new park "Veterans Park." We all love veterans - there's zero question about that - but how about something more inclusive, less somber, and less politically sensitive in the event that we ever want to leverage commercial opportunities for the park or relocate it again in 20 years. How about Jacksonville Park? Or Unity Park? Or Riverfront Park?

Sorry, maybe I'm just being uncharacteristically negative, but the tone of the conference kind of left a bad taste in my mouth. It's the type of presentation that lands much better when you field a winning team, not go 3-13 and hold onto the worst coach in NFL history until the end of the season. The suggestions that Jacksonville wasn't keeping up with the Jones' in terms of stadium upgrades was a little eye-rolling too after the city has dumped close to a 100 million into Everbank in the last couple of years. And all the talk about the Jaguars and average ticket price fundamentally ignored the laws of supply and demand. Of course a market of 1,000,000 people competing for 64,000 tickets is going to have a lower average price than a market of 4,000,000 million competing for the same number of tickets. Everyone involved with the NFL is getting filthy rich. And the value of the Jaguars has increased from $700 million to $2 billion since Khan bought the time. After the run the Jags have had in recent years, it's just a bad time to be lecturing about how ticket prices need to go up.

[BridgeTroll]

The football team and facilities as a destination... See what the Packers are doing right now with the Titletown district under construction...

http://www.packers.com/lambeau-field/titletown-district.html

https://www.youtube.com/v/9TESJ2FYF58?ecver=1

[remc86007]

Yeah, that slide came off, to me at least, as a cheap shot at city government. The $300m number seemed rather arbitrary to me. It's not like the city hasn't put up millions for the Jags in the past few years; not that I would be opposed to a major upgrade to the stadium if the Jags are putting up a large amount of the money.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

It was Mark Lamping. Just as clear as day he showed a graph that showed all the teams that have built a stadium since the Jaguars built theirs. It was 21. He blamed the age of our stadium to low ticket growth. Apparently you weren't watching that part.

Ticket PRICE growth.  Around 50% actually for new stadiums, but obviously if you spend $1B on a stadium, the ticket prices will have to go up to compensate for the expenditure.

The message that I took from it is that they're happy with renovating it, but understand that it's going to be a continuous process and not just a $50M ask this year and then calling it quits.  It's going to be incremental - as in tens of millions each and every year.  That message was directed more at Curry and the Council, who are going to be in charge of passing these expenditures, as opposed to the fans who will be paying for the increased cost of tickets.

[remc86007]

As far as naming the park; I suggest that the city sells the rights to it for 3-5 year terms.

Intuition park sounds cool to me.

[FlaBoy]

In the weeds of things now but I would go with something like Navy Park especially if you have the USS Adams there and can maybe theme it around our naval history in back to exploration, the Spanish-American War, World War II, etc., with other smaller ships and other attractions, which is one of the true unique identifiers of the area.

[KenFSU]

Three firms put in bids.

Not sure if the ark is one of them.

[RattlerGator]

It was Mark Lamping. Just as clear as day he showed a graph that showed all the teams that have built a stadium since the Jaguars built theirs. It was 21. He blamed the age of our stadium to low ticket growth. Apparently you weren't watching that part.

Apparently I was doing a better job comprehending the presentation rather than looking for wild hints. They aren't looking for a new stadium and they aren't hinting at it either.

[vicupstate]

It was Mark Lamping. Just as clear as day he showed a graph that showed all the teams that have built a stadium since the Jaguars built theirs. It was 21. He blamed the age of our stadium to low ticket growth. Apparently you weren't watching that part.

Apparently I was doing a better job comprehending the presentation rather than looking for wild hints. They aren't looking for a new stadium and they aren't hinting at it either.

When Lamping was saying that part, you had your fingers in your ears and saying 'la, la, la, ' to yourself.

[remc86007]

It wouldn't make any sense to teardown the existing stadium with all the improvements that have been made to it recently and then build a new one from scratch. The referenced part of the presentation was merely trying to get the point across to the city that they want major renovation money for the stadium going forward.

[KenFSU]

^What Lamping said was this, pardon my paraphrase:

We still have a great facility. But even though we've had five stadium enhancement projects in the last few years, we really need to double that number to get where we need to be.

[FlaBoy]

Three firms put in bids.

Not sure if the ark is one of them.

LOL. I am looking forward to seeing them.

I do agree with your point about the park above concerning the traffic. I honestly am leaning towards the use of the overpasses as anything other than a park (maybe public transit with a raised station for their autonomous vehicles) makes no sense. There is not enough benefit for skipping the awful congested traffic (sarcasm) between the arena and Liberty St.

[RattlerGator]

Sorry, maybe I'm just being uncharacteristically negative, but the tone of the conference kind of left a bad taste in my mouth. It's the type of presentation that lands much better when you field a winning team, not go 3-13 and hold onto the worst coach in NFL history until the end of the season. The suggestions that Jacksonville wasn't keeping up with the Jones' in terms of stadium upgrades was a little eye-rolling too after the city has dumped close to a 100 million into Everbank in the last couple of years. And all the talk about the Jaguars and average ticket price fundamentally ignored the laws of supply and demand. Of course a market of 1,000,000 people competing for 64,000 tickets is going to have a lower average price than a market of 4,000,000 million competing for the same number of tickets. Everyone involved with the NFL is getting filthy rich. And the value of the Jaguars has increased from $700 million to $2 billion since Khan bought the time. After the run the Jags have had in recent years, it's just a bad time to be lecturing about how ticket prices need to go up.

Well, you've certainly earned some dap from me and I do value your take. But when you've got the envious (vicupstate et al) and those that hear wild hints and insist on the accuracy of mistaken takes -- that is the state of play and Lamping knows that minority is out there and they do a lot of yapping.

I give Lamping credit for keeping it real in these presentations. The fact of the matter is they've been losing for years on the field, and the local fans have continued to buy tickets -- contrary to national perceptions. Nationally, more than a few folks are STILL looking for this franchise to fail. The Jaguars are operating against that hard-to-change narrative so they can't afford for people around here (politicians -- that group was the primary target) to think they've done enough on the partnership angle.

No, they haven't. That's what Lamping is reiterating. The continuing evolution has to be embraced and, when embraced, will be of great benefit to both parties.

That's the way I took it. And they have the record to back up that take, IMHO.