Downtown on the verge of a development boom?

[Tacachale]

^I agree with that too, assuming the Skyway structure can carry the weight.

[thelakelander]

^There are streetcars on the market that are lighter than the Skyway vehicle's existing weight.  Ultimately, it boils down to whether JTA really wants to make such a conversion or not. It would be a significant upfront capital investment.  However, so will modernizing the skyway vehicles and expanding  a mode that cost twice as much per mile. So you're investing big bucks either way but a system serving more of the core city will have better ridership and TOD potential, in and outside of downtown. The largest con I can see for switching technology is that JTA's staff would have to be trained to gain familiarity with a new system.

[Tacachale]

^Wouldn't it be automated regardless of what they do? If not, that would be a pretty substantial con as well.

[Captain Zissou]

At the same time, between Suns games, Armada games, Sharks games, Concerts/Events in the Arena, and soon in the Amphitheater, there are an easy 100 events per year out there. The system could never handle Jags games though or FL/GA.

Oh, we're already way past that point already. Even without the ampitheater, the sports complex already hosts between 150 and 200 events a year, between the Jags, Suns, Sharks, Giants and Armada, plus all of the concerts and other events at the stadium, the fair, music festivals in Met Park, etc. With construction of the new amphitheater and event space, we could conceivably cross the 200 event barrier. That's a lot of people to move.

The existing parking structures are more than adequate for any event smaller than 10-20,000 people.  Most people are coming from well beyond the urban core, so they're going to drive regardless.  Only the big events that cause traffic jams, expensive parking in private lots, etc will really utilize the skyway.  Currently, there are maybe a dozen of those events a year.

[thelakelander]

^Wouldn't it be automated regardless of what they do? If not, that would be a pretty substantial con as well.

No. The only "automated" technology out of those would be the skyway people mover technology.

[FlaBoy]

Can the people mover be brought down to near ground level to save costs of elevation?

[jaxjaguar]

The other thing people never consider is that the current trains are much smaller than they could be. The platform's are designed to handle trains more than twice the size of the current ones. With larger trains and better route managing algorithms the skyway could easily handle moving people from the garages on the south bank / convention center to the stadium area for anything shy of the playoffs or superbowl. Most of those garages sit empty on the weekends and this would not only diffuse traffic, but encourage people to explore areas outside of the stadium district post game. You win by putting more bodies downtown on the weekends, getting more use out of public transit, spreading out traffic and helping local businesses.

[thelakelander]

Can the people mover be brought down to near ground level to save costs of elevation?

No. The Skyway is guided by a monorail beam. If you drop it to grade, it will block street and pedestrian access.



That beam is the reason the skyway has to be grade separated. The only place where it makes since to drop it to grade would be in San Marco because the corridor would run parallel to the FEC tracks, and there's no crossing north of Atlantic Boulevard. Other fixed modes don't have that beam, which allows them to operate elevated or at ground level.

[Gunnar]

One system that I found very interesting is the VAL (light metro) people mover system. It is e.g. used in the Toulouse (France) subway system. I found it very interesting and it worked rather nicely while I was there.

What I am still  not sure about is how it is different from the Skyway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toulouse_Metro

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A9hicule_Automatique_L%C3%A9ger

I find this part interesting:

In 2006 the NeoVal project, successor of the VAL, was announced. It will feature regenerative braking. 40% of the 62 million Euros set aside for the programme will come from Oseo (the technology-supporting project agency formerly known as the AII). The program is managed by Siemens, in association with Lohr Industrie. The NeoVal will be guided by a single central rail, similar to that of the Translohr, and will be able to operate without any electrical supply between the stations (no third rail or overhead), making the cost of infrastructure much lower

[thelakelander]

^It has a third rail, which supplies the trains with electricity.

The trains have rubber tyres and use a third rail 750 V direct current electric supply.

Like a heavy rail system (ex. NYC Subway, Chicago EL, BART, DC Metro, etc.), you can't run this type of technology at-grade without blocking streets and sidewalks because you'll end up frying someone trying to cross it.  It has to be either above or below grade.




The major difference is the Skyway has a monorail beam. VAL does not.



In both cases, you can't drive or walk across them at-grade.

[icarus]

I guess the question would be then if not having to use mono beam would reduce weight and hence cost of expanding system . given the existing train sets are probably due for replacement soon.

[thelakelander]

If the trainsets are replaced, they'll probably have to remove or modify that beam anyway. No one makes our skyway vehicles anymore.

[Snufflee]

Curious as to what would be the cost of creating a system like San Diego's Trolleys. Lived there for 17 years and even though we lived in East County there were 2 stations near my home that allowed the family to get to the Convention Center for Comi-Con, Padres games downtown, the Gaslamp District and if the money gods were smiling a Chargers Game or 2.

[thelakelander]

The San Diego Trolley is LRT. LRT can range anywhere from $25 million to $100 million depending on ROW costs and if its elevated, at-grade or underground. Based off the cost of recent LRT systems built in the US, probably $30 to $50 million per mile.



As for converting the Skyway system to LRT, the existing elevated structure can't support the weight of many modern streetcars (see Portland example below), much less full blown LRT.

[Gunnar]

^It has a third rail, which supplies the trains with electricity.

The trains have rubber tyres and use a third rail 750 V direct current electric supply.

Like a heavy rail system (ex. NYC Subway, Chicago EL, BART, DC Metro, etc.), you can't run this type of technology at-grade without blocking streets and sidewalks because you'll end up frying someone trying to cross it.  It has to be either above or below grade.

Wouldn't the NeoVal solve this problem ?

The NeoVal will be guided by a single central rail, similar to that of the Translohr, and will be able to operate without any electrical supply between the stations (no third rail or overhead), making the cost of infrastructure much lower

I guess the trains need to carry batteries and be recharged at each station and at least recover some energy when braking.