Downtown on the verge of a development boom?

[thelakelander]

^At a minimum, I think there's missed opportunity with strengthening connectivity to Five Points/Riverside and Springfield/UF Health. Both are population, entertainment and employment centers that can serve as everyday anchors. The space between these locations (Brooklyn, Sugar Hill, Hansontown, etc.) and the existing Skyway network is also suitable for high density infill. However, accessing either means you'd need to seriously consider dropping the system down to grade. That requires a change in technology. Nevertheless, a lot of the recent complaints being made about downtown are actually things being planned for this exact moment.

[Captain Zissou]

The combination of East San Marco with a skyway stop and a very distant commuter rail stop is so exciting.  Looking at the JTA map it seems like so little is needed to give skyway access to two large populations by creating the Brooklyn and San Marco stops.  The stadium is far less practical, but I can see that being the route built first.

[benmarcus]

Physically, I believe it can be done. However, if I had to put cash down, I'd put it on JTA keeping it a peoplemover and only figuring out how to expand to the stadium, San Marco and Brooklyn. 

An extension to the stadium and transportation depot, alone, would have huge positive consequences on the system, in my opinion. I am truly optimistic for the future of downtown, as long as folks stay on the ball with the money being spent. Seems like there's a bit of an activist revolution happening here, as well, but in the "let's put things in the right place" sort of way.

[Captain Zissou]

^Unless there are truly 100 events a year at the stadium/amphitheater complex going forward, a stadium extension should be the last thing on the list.

[Tacachale]

A stadium extension would guarantee a certain number of riders tied to events. That's probably less important if the system stays free. It probably also wouldn't have the TOD opportunities. However, it would allow the city to use the stadium parking more regularly. On example is the courts: several hundred potential jurors have to report to the Courthouse every Monday. That's far too many to fit in nearby parking, so historically the court had them park at the Stadium and shuttled them over. A Skyway extension could serve that need and other similar ones.

[FlaBoy]

Getting something near Riverside/5 Points is more important than the stadium IMO. San Marco extension would also mean a lot more at this point.

At the same time, between Suns games, Armada games, Sharks games, Concerts/Events in the Arena, and soon in the Amphitheater, there are an easy 100 events per year out there. The system could never handle Jags games though or FL/GA. If Khan gets a hotel built out there, you do have some potential for TOD but not quite as much due to the Shipyards' problems, the jail, and Maxwell House.

[KenFSU]

^Unless there are truly 100 events a year at the stadium/amphitheater complex going forward, a stadium extension should be the last thing on the list.

Oh, we're already way past that point already. Even without the ampitheater, the sports complex already hosts between 150 and 200 events a year, between the Jags, Suns, Sharks, Giants and Armada, plus all of the concerts and other events at the stadium, the fair, music festivals in Met Park, etc. With construction of the new amphitheater and event space, we could conceivably cross the 200 event barrier. That's a lot of people to move. That said, the stadium line certainly has the best chance of success if it's tied into those Brooklyn/Riverside and San Marco population centers.

[mtraininjax]

Wow, not even the JTA knows where Riverside is located....Ugh!

[FlaBoy]

Physically, I believe it can be done. However, if I had to put cash down, I'd put it on JTA keeping it a peoplemover and only figuring out how to expand to the stadium, San Marco and Brooklyn. 

^Aside from maybe shifting the sports complex stop a bit further to the east, this is pretty much perfect.

Sincerely hope the state recognizes it as such.

I would say you almost don't need it going that far east yet. Drop it off AP at Randolph between the baseball field and arena. People going to a Jags game or event at Everbank would take it to get that far. I would take the extra .3 miles of funding into Riverside.

[ProjectMaximus]

I feel like dropping the skyway station down by the fuller warren (annie lytle anyone?) would already be good enough to serve five points. Obviously a future streetcar connection would do wonders through the rest of riverside, avondale, murray hill, etc but if we're just talking about the current technology expanded as is, I think that would already be close enough to capture a decent amount of five points traffic.

I would be equally thrilled with a San Marco extension close to the East San Marco project as well as the Old City Hall stop that would tie the Hyatt and elbow into the rest of the network. Given the current situation I'll pass on extending farther down Bay St or into The District until future development warrants it.

But this is all fairly pie-in-the-sky...we all know that we won't see any of these extensions until the situation is so dire that even the fully built-out map shown above is inadequate, if ever. It's been hard enough to find funding for a simple station in Brooklyn where the maintenance yard is.

[ronchamblin]

Seems to me that a major advantage the Skyway has over the streetcars and other ground level transport is that it avoids the normal ground traffic ... intersections, traffic lights ... delays ...  crashes etc.  Because of this "up in the air" advantage, significant extensions of the Skyway would do wonders to relieve traffic congestion.  Streetcars offer advantages too, so perhaps they could operate in parallel, and as connections to and between other areas.   

Can someone answer the question ....  to what size can the Skyway vehicles be increased? ... perhaps double the current? 

[Gunnar]

Seems to me that a major advantage the Skyway has over the streetcars and other ground level transport is that it avoids the normal ground traffic ... intersections, traffic lights ... delays ...  crashes etc.  Because of this "up in the air" advantage, significant extensions of the Skyway would do wonders to relieve traffic congestion.  Streetcars offer advantages too, so perhaps they could operate in parallel, and as connections to and between other areas.   

Can someone answer the question ....  to what size can the Skyway vehicles be increased? ... perhaps double the current?

Another alternative would be increasing the frequency, but then the next question would be the max capacity of the system (i.e. how many vehicles does it support at the same time).

I would love for the Skyway system to be combined with other types of rail based transportation, i.e. have the Skyway in the DT adjancent area and connect it to e.g. a light rail system that would connect the adjacent areas / counties (and the airport, the Beaches...) to DT Jax.

[camarocane]

Does anyone know what the cost/mile for this system would be? I read somewhere it was roughly 80 million, but don't recall the exact number. If so, it would be on the order of 250mil to fully build it out. Maybe it could fill the pension void

[thelakelander]

Here's two articles worth reading regarding the Skyway and streetcar technology:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-nov-9-reasons-to-expand-the-skywayas-a-streetcar/

https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/jacksonville-people-mover-plans-modernize-expand

Seems to me that a major advantage the Skyway has over the streetcars and other ground level transport is that it avoids the normal ground traffic ... intersections, traffic lights ... delays ...  crashes etc.  Because of this "up in the air" advantage, significant extensions of the Skyway would do wonders to relieve traffic congestion.  Streetcars offer advantages too, so perhaps they could operate in parallel, and as connections to and between other areas.

The Skyway is an automated people mover (APM) on top of an existing elevated deck. If you replaced the APM with a streetcar or light rail, you'd have a streetcar or light rail operating on top of an existing elevated deck through downtown. So, elevation is not an advantage of the Skyway.  It's a disadvantage because the other other modes can operate above or at ground level and even on their own ROW. History has proven that they are a lot more adaptable in accessing and serving different types of built environments. They're also cheaper to build and maintain. Here's a sample map Ock drew last year. If the Skyway were a streetcar you could have a single system that's elevated through downtown and at-grade outside of it.

[FlaBoy]

Does anyone know what the cost/mile for this system would be? I read somewhere it was roughly 80 million, but don't recall the exact number. If so, it would be on the order of 250mil to fully build it out. Maybe it could fill the pension void

A street car is about $15 million a mile. To me, a street car would make sense coming out of Brooklyn to Riverside and to the Stadium Area. Along the shipyard land for the foreseeable future, there are no cross streets.

Lake's idea about converting the whole thing to street car makes way too much sense.