Employee shot at The Blind Rabbit restaurant in Riverside

[Adam White]

Sigh.

Did you choose Appalachia because it's predominantly white? Are you attempting to say something without saying it?

I think you'll find murder rates in rural areas (regardless of the makeup of the population) tend to be lower than those in cities.

There are myriad causes of crime. Here's a nice article you may be interested to read. Or to automatically discount:

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1991-06-16/news/1991167035_1_university-of-kentucky-kentucky-mountains-eastern-kentucky

Are you attempting to knee jerk & put words in my mouth??

If you'd have read (and let it soak into that brain of yours instead of jumping to the usual conclusions), I used it because it's literally the poorest areas in the entire country (and very low murder rates). Something "old man yells at cloud" guy up there was trying to tie in as one of the sole reasons why people kill. Like we should pity them because they can't (or won't) find jobs so they gotta go off someone just because ("it wasn't me, it was societyyyy"). It's fucking stupid & an extremely narrow minded, simplistic point of view to a problem with a ton of different elements (as you pointed out with high populated/density areas being just one).

And yes, I'm standing by my statement that if the races were reversed & the financial backgrounds similar, you wouldn't hear such ridiculous apologist shit uttered on this board, or anywhere else for that matter. You know it & I know it.

I would suggest that economics (not simply "being poor") is the distal cause (if not the proximate cause) of a lot of crime. And most, if not all, street crime.

Did you read that article I posted the link to?

[Adam White]

The real issue is income, as Ron has correctly identified.

Correlation does not equate to causation, i.e. just because neighbourhoods have a high percentage of black residents doesn't mean that they will have high crime rates.

The indicator of high crime isn't race, instead it is poverty. Sadly, though many blacks in America are poor.
here are examples of low crime cities with very large African American populations.

City - median income - % black
Fort Washington, MD -$110,000 - 70.6%
Mitchellville, MD - $109,000 - 85.4%
Bowie, MD - $105,000 - 48%
Friendly, MD - $97,000 - 79.6%
Ladera Heights, CA - $97,000 - 73.7%
Hillcrest, NY - 96,000 - 55.8%
Kettering, MD - 89,000 - 92.1 %
Elmont, NY - $85,000 - 45.5%
Wheatley Heights - 84,000 - 54.3%

A bunch of poor people living in a region is not likely to be as problematic as poor and rich living cheek-by-jowel. And although Appalachia may be the poorest region in the USA (assuming that is true), it doesn't mean there aren't poorer areas or poorer people. Inner-city poverty can be just as bad, if not worse, than what is found in Appalachia. And poverty doesn't just mean 'no money'. And being black or American Indian and impoverished is different than being white and impoverished.

[ronchamblin]

The innocent young man killed on a tragic day about a year ago was clearly the primary victim, and his loved ones who suffer his absence were the secondary.  But what of the killer?  Imagine this killer twenty years ago, as a young boy.  Who would have thought that he, emerging from youth, would actually shoot someone, apparently for a few dollars, on a street in a local neighborhood twenty years later?  Was he a killer from birth, or did societal elements through time and circumstance create the killer?

Was he, and are others who've similar circumstances of birth and societal predicament, destined to engage the world of crime in order to survive ... in order to gain some position, some kind of footing in our society?  Are too many black youths and men, from the beginning, faced with so few choices as to economic survival that they choose in desperation the quick and easy?  As choices for survival become scarce, certain actions allowing survival become increasingly probable.   

Accepting the killer's behavior is certainly not the object.  But if the objective is to reduce this kind of behavior, and thus the deaths and the suffering, there is more to be done than simply punishing and executing, as doing so only perpetuates the very conditions that encourages and enables the kind of behavior we wish to end; behavior resulting in more killings ... more mothers without sons ..  more wives without husbands ... more children without fathers.

The man and the youth must survive economically.  By some method, money must be gained, as it alone allows survival.  How is money gained?  Preferably by working ... by being employed ... having a job; and secondarily via welfare ... a method not conducive to self respect and personal growth. 

You've taken the cake with this one, Ron. Something tells me if the races were reversed, you wouldn't be spouting this philosophical horse shit.

If you feel its just economical situations causing people to kill, why don't you get some perspective & take a trip to parts of southern Appalachia (home of the poorest congressional districts in the entire country) & tell me how much killing you see.

PSU ... sir ... or madame? .... I do not know how to address you.  An event many years ago ... I recall, as a naive 18 year old, outside of a bar in Waikiki, sitting at night in my auto, seeing, in the parking lot, a nicely dressed, but very drunk young lady, standing ... peeing on the ground.  This image changed somewhat my perception of the female of the species, although I've over the years assumed it is a very rare behavior.  Drunk is drunk; the mind becomes the slave to the most basic or bizarre urges, desires, or pressures. 

I apologize for my lack of clarity in my stuff about the Riverside killing.  I thought I would be safe from ridicule, as I had based my opinions on what I considered to be the most profound animal need called "survival".  To drift from clarity or good sense, especially while engaging at such a low level the cause and effect pyramid, is a warning of my upcoming mental decline.

I suspect, from you comments ... "if the races were reversed" and "... and "if you feel it's just the economical situation causing people to kill"..., that you attribute certain criminal behaviors of segments of the male B population to something other than their predicament; a predicament shaped by their origins in the west; as shaped by many decades of societal habits, prejudices, and institutional barriers which do not affect most of the W population, especially those W's who even approach privileged economic comfort.

I hope you agree that both W and B males must survive ... all humans must survive ... just as all animals; each, driven by the most basic of pressures, via the most profound ingenuities.  Charlie D might agree.

Your comments set me wondering about what your analysis might be; that is, if you ponder the fact of the high ratio of a population of B's incarcerated as compared to W's ... if you were to ponder the fact of a high ratio B crime rates when comparing the B's and the W's.  How do you explain this sir ... or madame?   

[peestandingup]

I apologize for my lack of clarity in my stuff about the Riverside killing.  I thought I would be safe from ridicule, as I had based my opinions on what I considered to be the most profound animal need called "survival".  To drift from clarity or good sense, especially while engaging at such a low level the cause and effect pyramid, is a warning of my upcoming mental decline.

I suspect, from you comments ... "if the races were reversed" and "... and "if you feel it's just the economical situation causing people to kill"..., that you attribute certain criminal behaviors of segments of the male B population to something other than their predicament; a predicament shaped by their origins in the west; as shaped by many decades of societal habits, prejudices, and institutional barriers which do not affect most of the W population, especially those W's who even approach privileged economic comfort.

I hope you agree that both W and B males must survive ... all humans must survive ... just as all animals; each, driven by the most basic of pressures, via the most profound ingenuities.  Charlie D might agree.

Your comments set me wondering about what your analysis might be; that is, if you ponder the fact of the high ratio of a population of B's incarcerated as compared to W's ... if you were to ponder the fact of a high ratio B crime rates when comparing the B's and the W's.  How do you explain this sir ... or madame?

Its pretty simple really. Every man (or woman) who is an adult is responsible for his/her own actions, period. Once you start cherry picking & the "they're this way because of this thing or that", you start getting into a whole nother realm of logic/apologist rhetoric. Which then leads to the notion that we're all in fact not equal (which is racist itself). So which is it, Ron? Are we equal or are we different??

And since you brought up how some of these people are forgotten job wise, you're a business owner. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is & hire some troubled black youth instead of the hippie white chicks I see in your shop??

[camarocane]

Ron, I tend to like those hippie white chicks! Please do not replace as PSU stated above.
thanks!

[ronchamblin]

Oops ... I failed to post it properly, and lost it.  I will attempt to duplicate what I had written. 

Actually PSU, I currently have as employees two black males of the species, and two black females.  I attempted several months ago to hire another black male, but, after working one day, he felt uncomfortable apparently, and never showed up again.  I was disappointed.  I am looking into hiring another black male soon .. depends.

Also, PSU ... you left yourself wide open for a brutal response from me .. in what seems like the beginning of a fun chess game.  But .... Don't worry, I shall be gentle.    Must get back to work. 

And actually Camarocane, the recent black chic hired is quite effective ... very sharp ... and only about 18 or 19 y.o.  She and her mother had been a customer for years at the downtown store.  I think she will work out well.

[peestandingup]

Oops ... I failed to post it properly, and lost it.  I will attempt to duplicate what I had written. 

Actually PSU, I currently have as employees two black males of the species, and two black females.  I attempted several months ago to hire another black male, but, after working one day, he felt uncomfortable apparently, and never showed up again.  I was disappointed.  I am looking into hiring another black male soon .. depends.

Also, PSU ... you left yourself wide open for a brutal response from me .. in what seems like the beginning of a fun chess game.  But .... Don't worry, I shall be gentle.    Must get back to work. 

And actually Camarocane, the recent black chic hired is quite effective ... very sharp ... and only about 18 or 19 y.o.  She and her mother had been a customer for years at the downtown store.  I think she will work out well.

This must be a new development then. And I commend you on hiring outside the normal range of what I've seen there in the past for so many years. But black doesn't automatically = "troubled", which is what I said. Just saying, its real easy to talk about it until you actually follow through with it & have to deal with someone who might be on drugs, doesn't show up on time, loss prevention, etc & your business suffers for it. And that's for black, white, whatever. My point is you'd be trying to fix issues deep seeded from many other things, not just "no job" (if only it were THAT simple). I've got plenty of scum bag cousins who are white as snow from similar situations, I've tried to help, offered them a place to stay, told them how to go about getting out of their ruts, etc & I'll tell you right now I wouldn't hire them either. Some people you just can't fix because of who they are, how they were raised, and a bunch of other things.

And I'm a big boy so you don't have to be gentle. I can take it. Come at me bro.

[ronchamblin]

PSU.  Thank you, as you've given clues that you are a male of the species, so I can refer to you as "Sir".  Also, there are further clues that you are a white male of the species ... a condition which, after some consideration, still allows me to refer to you as "sir".   

In the interest of simplicity, so as to improve understanding, I propose an analogy of slopes or mountains ... to the peak of which both colors of the species must ascend in order not only to survive economically, but to simply survive.  I suggest that most observers of American society over the past one hundred fifty years will perceive differences in the mountains offered to each color ... the blacks enduring too often the steeper slopes ... slopes occasioned with slippery surfaces ... and with climbing gear too often inferior to those offered to the whites. 

Of course, there are variations ... some blacks, by fortunate circumstances somehow stumble upon a gentle slope, thereby avoiding some societal obstacles confronting most blacks.  And there are some whites who, by circumstances, endure similar obstacles as the majority of the blacks. But, as in most comparisons, the majority is the issue.  The isolated success of a few does not forgive the large majority who fail and suffer as a consequence of circumstances beyond their control.

Certainly, unprejudiced contemplation will conclude that for their entire presence in this country most blacks have been confronting mountains made precipitous and slippery by habit and convention. by a legacy of slavery, of prejudice, and of institutional discrimination by a population of whites smitten with the offending reality of raw racism.

Survival is utmost in the mind of any animal PSU.  When survival by the acceptable and proper means is very difficult, to the extent that it is almost impossible, the animal, whether human or not, whether black or white ... becomes desperate, and will be forced to survive by the most creative, horrendous, and absurd means possible. 

Therefore it would behoove any entities in control of the societal mountains, to create and maneuver societal infrastructures so as to offer to all segments of the population, both black and white ... mountains having the same slopes, the same textures ... and with the same offering of climbing gear with which to ascend.  Until this distribution of fairness is achieved within reason, until an economy having jobs is created, until the "justice/prison/probation/release" system is maneuvered to sanity and fairness, society should not be overly offended or confounded by the high rates of crime, the robberies, the burglaries by this segment of our population.

But PSU ... if you've not been agreeable to the assignment of societal or environmental conditions ... the economy and the availability of jobs in particular ..., and the "mountains" as described above ...  as primary causes of the creation of the apparent high ratio of the black "criminal" element in society, to what do you ascribe the cause? 

Your original words ...

... "If you feel it's just economical situations causing people to kill, why don't you get some perspective & take a trip to parts of southern Appalachia (home of the poorest congressional districts in the entire country) & tel me how much killing you see."

... inform me that you apparently ascribe some innate mental element of the blacks as being a cause of the apparent higher rates of criminal activity of this segment of the population.  Do I interpret correctly sir?  ... that is, please help me understand your position on the question as to the cause of an apparent high ratio of blacks in the criminal/prison world.

[mtraininjax]

This does need its own thread, but really is more of BE CAREFUL when you stumble out of the restaurants at the North End of King Street after  midnight. In speaking with the JSO cops who patrol the Riverside area, there have now been 7 robberies of patrons in the back alleys as they made their way to their cars. The robber has stolen the cell phones, cash, anything of value.

The area is ripe with criminals who see the area as an opportunity. Don't be a victim, make sure you are aware of your surroundings if out late, really anywhere in Jax, and especially those areas that are popular with lots of people.

[mtraininjax]

Its one criminal and he apparently lives in Avondale.

Yeah, that's not what the officer said yesterday at the opening of the new Riverside park, where you were sorely missed.