How to fit a gas station into Brooklyn

[thelakelander]

^Everyone knows the rules. However, there's strong precedence of getting deviations approved for things you don't want to do. Until we figure out what we want to be and are willing to make sure the policies intended to achieve those long term goals are followed, the same outcome will continue for the foreseeable future.

[Kerry]

Well this sucks but par for the course.  This was a huge opportunity missed for not only Brooklyn and the City, but Gate as well.

And I totally agree with above comment that Jax has an idea of what it wants, but no idea how to actually do it.

[Kerry]

^Everyone knows the rules. However, there's strong precedence of getting deviations approved for things you don't want to do. Until we figure out what we want to be and are willing to make sure the policies intended to achieve those long term goals are followed, the same outcome will continue for the foreseeable future.

It seems the only purpose for the rules is to know which variance to apply for.

[Tacachale]

It sucks, but not surprising. What we need, is to start working on the developers, before they devote a lot of time and energy on plans they won't want to change, and that DDRB won't stand up to. And to work with the city on coming up with an overall plan for Brooklyn and Downtown, like the one drawn up years ago that was never followed.

Currently, DDRB has made it clear it's just going to give in to whatever the developer wants. Developers have no incentive to do better.

[Kerry]

It sucks, but not surprising. What we need, is to start working on the developers, before they devote a lot of time and energy on plans they won't want to change, and that DDRB won't stand up to. And to work with the city on coming up with an overall plan for Brooklyn and Downtown, like the one drawn up years ago that was never followed.

Currently, DDRB has made it clear it's just going to give in to whatever the developer wants. Developers have no incentive to do better.

Agreed and that is already in the works.  Because this project was already in process it monopolized a lot of our initial time and effort, but now we can focus on being proactive and not reactive.  We will also perform an after-action review of what went right/wrong, where effort might have been better spent, and how we can be more organized and focused going forward.

[thelakelander]

LOL....only in Jacksonville....

Steve Diebenow, the attorney representing Gate at the hearing, said Gate went through the right process, including considering 21 alternative plans, and found that the proposed site plan was the only one that would work. If it can't build the station the way it wants, he said, Gate won't build the station.

DIA Chairman Bailey said the submitted site plan proposal from Ehas was irrelevant – and that what Gate was doing was unique and tailored to the area it's moving into.

"It's such a change from what Gate usually does," Bailey said before the board voted. "The design is unique. I'm sure it didn't happen very easily, but I'm glad that it

The unique plan specifically tailored to the area its moving into....

Full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/06/23/planned-gate-petroleum-station-survives-appeal.html

[brainstormer]

Decision sucks and sets a bad precedent for the Brooklyn neighborhood. I agree with the comments about the need to clean house on DDRB and DIA. They aren't helping and some appear to just be idiots and/or bought and paid for.

[ProjectMaximus]

Surprised by Jim Bailey. Also mildly surprised by Oliver Barakat in a good way.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Decision sucks and sets a bad precedent for the Brooklyn neighborhood. I agree with the comments about the need to clean house on DDRB and DIA. They aren't helping and some appear to just be idiots and/or bought and paid for.

So many of the people elected to run this city seem to be quite the collection of invertebrates.

"If Gate can't build what they want, then they won't build there."  Great.  I'm sure there's plenty of land to develop whichever iteration of outer-beltway we're on right now.  Bad precedent indeed.  But this precedent has been set so long ago, I don't think anyone can pinpoint when, but great ideas and procedures that would benefit the collective city have always, ALWAYS, been sidelined in favor of allowing the deep pockets to do what they want in order to keep favor.

Over-Under - 8 years before there's a full blown strip-mall, big-box area just West of 95 on Forest St.  Probably anchored by a Wal-Mart.

[thelakelander]

^Well it won't be the first. Brooklyn Station beat it by a few years. It ended up a little better than your average strip mall because the outparcels were built to and interact with the street. Nevertheless, the argument made by Gate was pretty much the same made for that development's site design being accepted the way it is.

[whislert]

A sad but predictable result. I don't personally know what effort DIA or any other City planning staff made to educate Gate about the implications of the design they pushed for. I know in Portland OR - 20 years ago - this same resistance was encountered by the Regional Government when it adopted virtually identical high density, mixed-use, transit oriented development regulations calling for zero lot line commercial buildings oriented to then non-existent foot traffic.  I suppose a 20 pump gas station will probably always rely heavily on its auto-delivered customers. Dealing with the operational hassles of managing both street-oriented and parking lot-oriented foot traffic might never be in their best economic interests. But the fact is they failed Jacksonville as a "local" foundational corporation. They, more than many yet to come smaller businesses in Brooklyn, could best afford the risk of pioneering  the pedestrian-oriented design features that might take a generation or more (in this town) to stimulate the kind of robust foot traffic that would make the investment pay off.

No, Gate will stymie appropriate build-out of Brooklyn and will then, eventually, parasitically benefit from its location in a dense, thriving urban locale built by the sweat of others. Rather than using their sizable investment as a vote of confidence in Brooklyn's aspirations; rather than using its location as the literal gateway to the Brooklyn district to showcase strong urban design, they have cynically used their good old boy connections to hedge their bet and cut the District's momentum off at the knees. They earnestly offer up reduced signage and "sensitive" building design as evidence of their good intentions. But rather than make their building a standout asset to the District, they offer extensive landscaping to hide its ugly, destructive and physically dangerous isolation from the vitality of the District's urban design ethic. For all that they harped about "safety" of their customers all morning, it doesn't take an engineering degree to realize the store is designed to be an island: any pedestrian must cross a "ring road" surrounding the building like a moat. There is no approach to the building that does not require pedestrians to expose themselves to auto and/or heavy truck traffic movements. And rather than putting the sidewalk along Forest to the interior of the greenery, thus using it as a buffer, they put it immediately adjacent to the high speed, high volume traffic of the gargantuan, overbuilt, six lane monstrosity that is Forest.

Walgreens and CVS bailed on bids to invest in Brooklyn for precisely the same reasons: they are unwilling to develop an appropriate urban design model for their businesses. They insisted on a suburban model and when DIA held firm, they walked. DIA couldn't stomach another failed development bid so they caved. In contrast, Portland Metro withstood two developer financed efforts to eliminate the agency. I can only wonder if a staunch expression of the City's commitment to realize its planning goals might not have convinced Gate to take the plunge. They smelled weakness instead and exploited the opening. Assuming DIA ever gets a true urban renaissance in Brooklyn, the Gate gas station will be a glaring wound in the fabric of that community for decades to come.

[thelakelander]

When and where did the DIA hold CVS to develop an appropriate urban design in Brooklyn?  CVS was going to get that suburban store layout, which essentially fit right in with the rest of the suburban center that was built. They bailed for other reasons.


Brooklyn Station with CVS


After CVS bailed, the developer added another outparcel building

[thelakelander]

This beauty was approved by the DDRB in 2012.



It was a revision for the original Lincoln Property proposed a few months earlier:



Lincoln wanted perimeter fencing because of "security" concerns for being in a "pioneering" location. Even with DDRB approval, Lincoln eventually bailed anyway and Pollack Shores stepped in. Pollack thought the DDRB approved Lincoln plan was horrible and flipped in inward out to develop what's there now.


Pollack's conceptual proposal


Pollack's conceptual site plan


Pollack's finished project properly addresses Park and Jackson Streets. This project turned out ok because the developer wanted a better site design, not because the city was going to demand it. Luckily, the developer had experience of doing similar projects in other cities and urban oriented environments. If Lincoln had developed that property, it would have been a larger black hole in Brooklyn's context than Gate's approved plan.

[whislert]

My bad on the CVS thing. The DIA planner voiced his belief that they fought the good fight and lost and I took him at his word. I frankly don't have a good bead on Brooklyn, having fought the City the past three years over Springfield issues. I'm a carpetbagger from the NW and stopped in for this issue as a favor. Familiar and frustrating and ... I gotta go with the under bet on that Walmart. That freeway access is just too ripe and low hanging.

[Charles Hunter]

There is absolutely zero chance of the Curry administration appointing anyone to any development review board who is not completely in bed with Developers. And if they do show some backbone, he will fire them.