Women's club infested with crazy destructive species of Formosan termites.

[JaxUnicorn]

I read the webpage Stephen posted.  From that, I have a few questions:

Q: WHY IS THE CUMMER MUSEUM DEMOLISHING THE WOMAN'S CLUB BUILDING?

A:  The building's wood interior, including its below-ground 89-year-old wooden foundation and basement, is infested with Formosan subterranean termites, a particularly destructive species that is nearly impossible to eradicate. There are substantial underground colonies in and around the building.

There are ways to treat for Formosan termite infestation and some have been tried in New Orleans and other cities. However, there is no guarantee the termites won't return and none of the pest control companies consulted were willing to provide a bond against Formosan termite damage. Re-infestation is a common problem. The Cummer Museum Board of Trustees made the difficult decision that it would be fiscally irresponsible to continue spending money on the renovation project without any guarantee to cover future damages caused by termites.

"There are ways to treat for Formosan termite infestation and some have been tried in New Orleans and other cities." 

• Has the Cummer attempted to treat for the Formosan termites?  If not, why not?  The building was fumigated in February 2008 to drywood termites.  What has the Cummer done since discovering the Formosan termites to attempt to eradicate the colony? 

"However, there is no guarantee the termites won't return and none of the pest control companies consulted were willing to provide a bond against Formosan termite damage." 

• No termite company will ever guarantee the termites will not return; what they do guarantee is re-treatment.  That is what the bond is for.  Certainly doing nothing will only cause more damage.  Another fumigation will kill the live termites in the building, then the other methods used in other cities can be engaged to eradicate the underground colony.

Although we do not currently have a timeline for demolition, based on obtaining the necessary permits, when the building is taken down, the Museum plans to follow best practices put in place by New Orleans to ensure the wood does not end up in other buildings and that the Formosans are contained to the best of our ability.

By using phrases such as "when the building is taken down", it sounds to me like the Cummer has already made their decision to demolish. 

During their February 2016 meeting, given the evidence and the recommendations of experts, the Cummer Museum Board of Trustees decided it was not fiscally responsible to continue to spend millions of dollars more to finish the renovations of the Woman's Club Building without a guarantee any future termite damage would be covered.

I'd like to see the official reports from the following:

An LSU professor of wood science
A Structural Engineer
Architects and Engineers
A UF entomologist

[MusicMan]

Formosan termites here are pretty rare, aren't they?

[Adam White]

I just want to know what woman was so important that they built this entire club just for her.

[strider]

great questions strider.  And I think the answers will be solved by research and asking questions.

Is there any particular thing you would like for me to look up or into?

As you might have noted, I have been doing a decent amount of research and PSOS has decided they will handle contacting the Cummer directly. Meanwhile,  is there anything you need me to explain to you?

The question:

If a Landmark is reconstructed such that only the exterior facade remains, is that Landmark still a valid Landmark?

The various laws and guidelines are constantly being re-interpreted here in Jacksonville so the opinion of the majority might sway the HPC leadership to set a more consistent course of action in regards to demolitions at least. 

I also find this:

When Cummer received state funds to help renovate the building, those funds came with a 10-year covenant to preserve the building.  That covenant expired in January 2016.

Interesting.

[Adam White]

I just want to know what woman was so important that they built this entire club just for her.

The Women's Clubs associations were institutions throughout the country that provided places for women to be socially and politically relevant. Mostly they fought for voting rights in the early days, but that was hardly their only focus.

Here, they were especially powerful and left an incredible record of accomplishments which literally created the idea of modern Jacksonville.

The Public Board of Health, the implementation of the first City Plan in the southeast, the department of forestry and agriculture, literally the entire cultural institutional presence of the city, the list of their achievements goes on and on.

The "joke" as it were, was that it's the Woman's Club of Jacksonville (not women's). I don't get that name.

[strider]

The demolition request has been submitted for review by the Historic Preservation Commission (HPC).  First review is apparently scheduled for the May 25th HPC meeting and is listed under New Business.  Interestingly enough, the request was submitted on May 16th, 2016 which is after the meeting submission deadline. 

An interesting fact is it appears that the Woman's Club was never a local landmark, only a Federal one, which does not give it the protections the local landmarks are granted.  This fact is perhaps also why the ten year agreement was made with the State to preserve the building and why the demolition is now possible as that ten year period has passed. The building is also outside of the Riverside Historic District. This means the first step is to determine if the building should be granted local landmark status. For this to happen, the Commission needs to agree that the building meets four of seven criteria.  Also of note is the fact that non-action by the HPC for 60 days and the demolition approval is automatically granted.

When we get a chance, we will put up the report prepared by Joel that is used to help determine whether the building should be a local landmark. It should also be stated that being declared a local landmark would only change the demotion approval process not necessarily save the building.

[strider]

The fate of the Women's Club will be in the hands of the HPC at today's commission meeting that starts at 3:00.  There are two possible outcomes from this meeting. The first is that the structure is determined to be not eligible for local landmark status and the demolition is approved and second is granting the structure local landmark status and in which case the process will continue onto City Council.  If that happens, the City Council can go either way and either deny the landmark, approving the demolition, or approve the landmark, granting the building protections.  Which means the owner could then start over and apply for a COA to demolish the structure.  Interestingly enough, the staff report issued by Joel McEachin disagrees with the previous National Register report and states that the structure only qualifies 3 of the 7 criteria, dismissing a few out of hand, and therefore recommends denying landmark status.

Because the owners are against the local landmark status, the structure must meet 4 of the 7 listed criteria.  I personally see that it meets 5 just from the staff report and can't possible see where it meets less than 4.  But I am not the people charged with making the decision.  I'm just a person who sees the hypocrisy of making it two to three times harder to change a window in a historic strucutre than it is to demolish the complete house.

[JaxUnicorn]

Yet again I am disgusted by the actions taken by Jacksonville's Historic Preservation Commission.  This afternoon they voted not only to NOT Landmark the Nationally recognized Jacksonville Womans Club on Riverside Avenue, but also to ALLOW its destruction. 

Here is a link to today's agenda:  http://www.coj.net/departments/planning-and-development/docs/historic/agendas-(1)/2016/agenda-(6-22-16).aspx
Someone please tell me WHERE the DEMOLITION of this historic structure was to be heard by the Commission...because I don't see it.  Yet when a point of order was raised regarding what was to be decided today, the HPC attorney stated on record that the Agenda did not matter because everyone knew the demolition was requested.  Hmmm....the only thing on the Agenda was the Landmarking decision.

Here is a link to the information provided by the Cummer:  http://www.coj.net/departments/planning-and-development/docs/historic/book/2016/cummer-termite-report.aspx 
If you scroll to page 34, you will see the following from Atlantic Engineering Services: 

In general, the Lane building is in good condition, but it does require repair and reinforcement.
This repair and reinforcement can be performed without a major removal of exterior finishes and roofing.

Does that sound like the building needed to come down?

The Staff report (found here: http://www.coj.net/departments/planning-and-development/docs/historic/lm-16-03-woman-s-club.aspx) stated the structure only met 3 of the 4 criteria required to be designated a Landmark, citing it did not meet Item (C)

It is identified with a person or persons who significantly contributed to the development of the City, state or nation.

Terry Whistler and I both disagreed; the Womans Club absolutely IS identified with "persons" who significantly contributed to the development of the City.  Just read the National Register of Historic Places paperwork; it is full of those contributions.  Yet the Commission bogged themselves down in a debate over whether a single person contributed, without regard to "persons".  They argued that they've never interpreted Item C as multiple people rather than a single individual.  What a travesty...

The majority of the speakers spoke of the termite infestation itself; no one spoke of the current state of the building.  Terry Whistler and I both stated that the demolition decision is NOT why we were here; we were here to determine whether the building deserved local Landmark designation. 

In the end it didn't matter.  The late admission of the original demolition request to May's meeting, coupled with the disregard for proper order seems to show the decision had already been made even before we showed up for the meeting. 

Once again the City of Jacksonville has absolutely NO REGARD for its historic structures.  The Bostwick Building is in way worse shape than the Womans Club.  And someone please tell me this....how is the hell will tearing down an historic structure rid the area of Formosan termites?  It won't....

[mbwright]

very sad for the fabric of Riverside. 

"I'm just a person who sees the hypocrisy of making it two to three times harder to change a window in a historic strucuture than it is to demolish the complete house."  sad but true. 

[hopeart]

You will find an updated FAQ on the Cummer Museum website that provides answers to some of the questions being raised here.  I will respond briefly to a few comments not addressed in the FAQ.  There is no doubt that the building is significant and that the activities of the Woman's Club organization have had a positive impact on Jacksonville.  Our founder, Ninah Cummer, was one of those early leaders of the Club and of this community.  Their legacy lives on in the results of decades of supporting community efforts and still today as the continue to meet and grant funds to causes close to them. 

No, tearing down the building does not rid the area of termites...we will have termites in this area for a long time to come and with a community-wide effort they will at least be managed and their spread controlled.  The building is coming down because it cannot and will not be renovated due to existing damage (structural engineer report was only 2 months after finding the damage...bugs haven't stopped, even with treatment) and the lack of a long term solution to protect the building in the future. 

Although it might on the surface seem like a quick or easy process (several have compared the ease of this decision to those of approving a new window in a historic structure) it was actually almost a year of intensive study, the involvement of experts across many fields, and a significant financial commitment.  When all is said and done, the Museum will have spent almost $600,000 just looking for a solution.  The plans for the building's renovation were still moving forward and funds being raised...even after finding the infestation.  The renovations to the building were going to cost $8.5 million and much of the funding was in place.  It would be very poor decision making to invest that kind of money and an additional $2 million for the termite mitigation efforts (architectural, structural, chemical, etc.) when all experts stated that nothing presented was a true solution...no guarantees for even short term viability. 

We are incredibly sad about what has occurred and as an institution we invested a decade of planning, hard work, and $7 million generously contributed by members of this community.  This was not a decision taken quickly, lightly, or without great seriousness.  In fact, it wasn't much of a decision at all...but a process to understand the problem, respond to each devastating answer with a new search for a different solution, connect the dots between the complicated and somewhat unique set of circumstances, and move through the final realization of what cards we had been dealt.

If anyone is interested, the rest of the Museum buildings that house our invaluable collection and which serves as the place for impactful educational programming is an example of how newer construction is at little risk.  The other building on our campus are constructed in a way and with materials that are much less at risk.  We are doing all we can to keep our campus safe and hope that what we are doing as a protocol for long term treatment and control becomes part of the larger area-wide treatment plan that is essential to have real impact.  We can look easily to other communities for success stories and ongoing challenges and I am glad that the City has assembled a group of people to get on top of the issue.

We will continue to be a voice for lifting up our history, preserving and conserving our community's artistic assets, educating children and adults on topics of relevance, and protecting the financial, artistic, and environmental assets that are the Cummer Museum.  I invite you to check out the FAQ document and reach out to me at the Museum if you have specific questions.

[strider]

You will find an updated FAQ on the Cummer Museum website that provides answers to some of the questions being raised here.  I will respond briefly to a few comments not addressed in the FAQ.  There is no doubt that the building is significant and that the activities of the Woman's Club organization have had a positive impact on Jacksonville.  Our founder, Ninah Cummer, was one of those early leaders of the Club and of this community.  Their legacy lives on in the results of decades of supporting community efforts and still today as the continue to meet and grant funds to causes close to them. 

No, tearing down the building does not rid the area of termites...we will have termites in this area for a long time to come and with a community-wide effort they will at least be managed and their spread controlled.  The building is coming down because it cannot and will not be renovated due to existing damage (structural engineer report was only 2 months after finding the damage...bugs haven't stopped, even with treatment) and the lack of a long term solution to protect the building in the future. 

Although it might on the surface seem like a quick or easy process (several have compared the ease of this decision to those of approving a new window in a historic structure) it was actually almost a year of intensive study, the involvement of experts across many fields, and a significant financial commitment.  When all is said and done, the Museum will have spent almost $600,000 just looking for a solution.  The plans for the building's renovation were still moving forward and funds being raised...even after finding the infestation.  The renovations to the building were going to cost $8.5 million and much of the funding was in place.  It would be very poor decision making to invest that kind of money and an additional $2 million for the termite mitigation efforts (architectural, structural, chemical, etc.) when all experts stated that nothing presented was a true solution...no guarantees for even short term viability. 

We are incredibly sad about what has occurred and as an institution we invested a decade of planning, hard work, and $7 million generously contributed by members of this community.  This was not a decision taken quickly, lightly, or without great seriousness.  In fact, it wasn't much of a decision at all...but a process to understand the problem, respond to each devastating answer with a new search for a different solution, connect the dots between the complicated and somewhat unique set of circumstances, and move through the final realization of what cards we had been dealt.

If anyone is interested, the rest of the Museum buildings that house our invaluable collection and which serves as the place for impactful educational programming is an example of how newer construction is at little risk.  The other building on our campus are constructed in a way and with materials that are much less at risk.  We are doing all we can to keep our campus safe and hope that what we are doing as a protocol for long term treatment and control becomes part of the larger area-wide treatment plan that is essential to have real impact.  We can look easily to other communities for success stories and ongoing challenges and I am glad that the City has assembled a group of people to get on top of the issue.

We will continue to be a voice for lifting up our history, preserving and conserving our community's artistic assets, educating children and adults on topics of relevance, and protecting the financial, artistic, and environmental assets that are the Cummer Museum.  I invite you to check out the FAQ document and reach out to me at the Museum if you have specific questions.

Right or wrong, even if there was no other best option to save the structure and everyone was on the same page, you would still get push back.  Because that is exactly how this is supposed to work. A check and balance using the proper procedures and following all the rules, even when it may not be comfortable to do so. Today with this City's lack of support of it's Historic heritage, with the preservationists seeing and proving how few times the actual rules are truly followed; many of us believe we have given up the right to pick and choose what gets saved and what doesn't.  That every single historic structure left standing deserves to be fought for up until the day the wrecking ball knocks it down.

[hopeart]

Agreed... There is incredible value and importance in the fight to preserve and the process for transparency and debate.

[Gunnar]

Right or wrong, even if there was no other best option to save the structure and everyone was on the same page, you would still get push back.  Because that is exactly how this is supposed to work. A check and balance using the proper procedures and following all the rules, even when it may not be comfortable to do so.

Totally agree and I feel than any rules (or values) for that matter that only get applied when it is convenient are basically worthless.

[Cayotica@icloud.com]

 COJ  is sending a fact-finding mission to New Orleans to learn how they handle their Formosan termites.

[mtraininjax]

COJ  is sending a fact-finding mission to New Orleans to learn how they handle their Formosan termites.

Did they send Kerri and Wight?