JSO involved shooting in Springfield

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

So for all intents and purposes in this conversation, fleeing from the police is now treated as a capital offense. 

The questions still remains:  Overall, would there be less shootings?

judging from the past three years of cops shooting people, would you say that there has been a slowdown in people fleeing the cops?

Or would you say that a more lethal police force is itself a driving reason why people might flee?

That's exactly the conundrum that I mentioned a few posts ago.  Personally, I see the fleeing as a cause, but I also understand how many see it as an effect.  It's also why I posited the scenario that I did.

Thats evasive, you asked a 'what if' question, that has been actually tried for the past couple of years.  Do you see a slowdown in fleeing?

It hasn't been 'tried'.  I can only think of one case in my recent memory when a fleeing suspect was shot dead.  It was in SC and the officer was charged with a crime.  (Update)  The other high-profile cases that come to mind were under completely different circumstances.

Which again begs a repeat of my original question:  If Mr. Scott had known, for a fact, that he would have been shot dead the moment he turned and ran, would he have still done it?

And to answer yours:  I truly don't know.  I only know what I see in the media, and unfortunately if a fleeing case doesn't end in tragedy, then it probably doesn't get reported.

[sheclown]

Scenes from  9th and liberty this morning.


The Memorial


The family. 



The New Black Panthers have organized a protest which will begin at 2:00 at City Hall

[sheclown]

"our children are hungry"

[sheclown]

These are their demands:

1.) JSO transparency, including a call for car cams and body cams

2.) Arrest of JSO officer

3.) The witnesses accounts taken seriously

4.) An independent investigation

5.) A look into all questionable cases and JSO's relationship with the black community.

They do not blame JSO but they blame the system.  They blame the state's attorney.



This is being organized by The Kemetic Empire.  A justice organization.

http://www.thekemeticempire.com/

The organization was established in 2003 by Diallo-Sekou. For several years the group has been involved with social issues in Jacksonville, fl. Savanna, Ga to Ferguson, Missouri. The group has self-published books, sponsored Lectures & Dvd's. The Kemetic Empire believes in a strong and consistent presence in the community. If we are to insure the youth we believe in them and we are here for them, we cannot be fleeting in our efforts to liberate them out of disadvantage to the empowerment arena. It is our efforts to build sustainable concepts while extracting the negative conditions hampering the community we are set in. It's important the This group has strong partnership and relationships with the people and organizations who want to change the poor conditions to a better one. Our strongest partnership today is the non-profit Urban-Geoponics. They are making great stride on the agriculture side of things.

[sheclown]

[AKIRA]

So for all intents and purposes in this conversation, fleeing from the police is now treated as a capital offense. 

The questions still remains:  Overall, would there be less shootings?

judging from the past three years of cops shooting people, would you say that there has been a slowdown in people fleeing the cops?

Or would you say that a more lethal police force is itself a driving reason why people might flee?

That's exactly the conundrum that I mentioned a few posts ago.  Personally, I see the fleeing as a cause, but I also understand how many see it as an effect.  It's also why I posited the scenario that I did.

Thats evasive, you asked a 'what if' question, that has been actually tried for the past couple of years.  Do you see a slowdown in fleeing?

It hasn't been 'tried'.  I can only think of one case in my recent memory when a fleeing suspect was shot dead.  It was in SC and the officer was charged with a crime.  (Update)  The other high-profile cases that come to mind were under completely different circumstances.

Which again begs a repeat of my original question:  If Mr. Scott had known, for a fact, that he would have been shot dead the moment he turned and ran, would he have still done it?

And to answer yours:  I truly don't know.  I only know what I see in the media, and unfortunately if a fleeing case doesn't end in tragedy, then it probably doesn't get reported.

Since there is some question of it, I can tell you that people flee from the police on a daily (and often multiple times a day) basis, be it in a car, on foot, bike, etc.

[sheclown]

Protest at 6 pm at 9th and Liberty.  TV truck's been there for a good part of the afternoon. 

Guys in suits hanging around -- not locals -- not city officials.

[sheclown]

In the wake of the seventh police-involved shooting of the year, several civil rights leaders have renewed their call for body cameras. Butler said Sheriff Mike Williams is in favor of body cameras but wants to ensure there is adequate funding and administration in place before using them.

Standard police procedures

Landreville was placed on administrative leave, which is standard while police-involved shootings are investigated. And for now, he can only answer questions from the State Attorney's Office.

"Police officers can't talk because it's under investigation," News4Jax crime and safety analyst Gil Smith said. "Usually when you have one side talking, when the public hears information coming from one side, you tend to side with those people because it's the only information that you're getting. And the fact that it's quiet gives appearance they're trying to hide something, but really it's just standard procedure."

Smith says Landreville will meet with an advocate to compile a statement of events.

"That's standard because it's such a traumatic situation. There is so much going on with the officer, emotionally," Smith said. "They found that when officers gave statements immediately and then when they have chance to calm down, they remember things differently."

Smith, a retired Jacksonville officer, said he believes the Sheriff's Office is being transparent since it admitted it has not found a weapon on or near the suspect and it is calling on more witnesses to come forward.

A few witnesses have given News4Jax accounts that conflict with preliminary police findings.

"The sticking point is what happened once they got out of the car. That's what's they're not sure about. That's what the investigation is going to lead to," Smith said. "Anyone who studies crime scene investigations knows the least reliable information is witness information. Not that the public is trying to be deceptive, but they might not have seen things the way they think that they did."

Smith said all parties involved should trust the investigative process of the state attorney and Jacksonville Sheriff's Office.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/local/jacksonville/officer-involved-shooting-in-springfield_

As the State Attorney's Office begins its investigation into the shooting, Reggie Gaffney, city councilman for District 7, called for an independent investigation Monday at intersection of Liberty and 9th streets, where the shooting happened.

Gaffney said he plans to speak with Jacksonville Sheriff Mike Williams about the independent investigation. He also said he wants the Department of Justice to look into what happened.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/local/jacksonville/mom-of-man-shot-by-officer-you-took-my-boys-life

Community groups call for police transparency

Both the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference issued statements calling for better police accountability and transparency.

"The questionable means by which black men are shot down in the streets will not be tolerated," wrote Ben Frazier, spokesman for the SCLC Southern Chapter. "We believe that this police shooting was a classic case where police body cameras could have have provided much needed and valuable footage."

According to the SCLC, over the past 12 years, 135 people have been shot by the JSO and 65 percent of those victims were black, even though only 34 percent of Jacksonville's population is black.

While all those incidents were investigated, every one of those shootings was considered justified.

"We have great concern as it relates to the potential excessive use of force involving Jacksonville officers," the NAACP wrote. "We are looking for a complete and thorough investigation."

http://www.news4jax.com/news/local/jacksonville/mom-of-man-shot-by-officer-you-took-my-boys-life

[mtraininjax]

Yeah.  Its wrong.  The man was unarmed.  And the fleeing was more like a limping along.

Some of the facts I heard:
1) Bing was driving a stolen car, which was wanted for a shooting incident another night
2) Bing led the JSO on the chase doing in excess of 50 mph on residential streets
3) Upon impact Bing fled the vehicle, and the JSO had to chase him

I hear you Stephen, you bring up a good point about, are the people fleeing more because of the JSO, but you and I were BOTH taught to listen to the police and do as they command. Respect them in the uniform. All those flashing lights behind his vehicle were not pizza deliveries trying to get to the next house, they were police and what do you do when you see emergency lights behind you? You pull over.

Bing did not deserve to die, we learned that even though the officer, in the heat of the moment shot multiple times, he only landed 1, that ended Bing's life. Yeah, Bing had a record, still he did not deserve to die, but........if he had just pulled over and not exacerbated the situation, odds are he would still be alive.

[Adam White]

Bing did not deserve to die, we learned that even though the officer, in the heat of the moment shot multiple times, he only landed 1, that ended Bing's life. Yeah, Bing had a record, still he did not deserve to die, but........if he had just pulled over and not exacerbated the situation, odds are he would still be alive.

I understand what you're saying, but you're basically blaming the victim.

[acme54321]

Bing did not deserve to die, we learned that even though the officer, in the heat of the moment shot multiple times, he only landed 1, that ended Bing's life. Yeah, Bing had a record, still he did not deserve to die, but........if he had just pulled over and not exacerbated the situation, odds are he would still be alive.

I understand what you're saying, but you're basically blaming the victim.

Are you saying he is faultless?

[Adam White]

Bing did not deserve to die, we learned that even though the officer, in the heat of the moment shot multiple times, he only landed 1, that ended Bing's life. Yeah, Bing had a record, still he did not deserve to die, but........if he had just pulled over and not exacerbated the situation, odds are he would still be alive.

I understand what you're saying, but you're basically blaming the victim.

Are you saying he is faultless?

Working on the assumption that the facts, as stated earlier, are correct...

Yes. No unarmed person fleeing from the police should be shot and killed. That's like blaming the drunk girl for being raped at a frat party. Yes, maybe she engaged in irresponsible behavior, but no amount of irresponsibility on her part excuses the rapist's actions.

[Popeye]

Yeah.  Its wrong.  The man was unarmed.  And the fleeing was more like a limping along.

Some of the facts I heard:
1) Bing was driving a stolen car, which was wanted for a shooting incident another night
2) Bing led the JSO on the chase doing in excess of 50 mph on residential streets
3) Upon impact Bing fled the vehicle, and the JSO had to chase him

I hear you Stephen, you bring up a good point about, are the people fleeing more because of the JSO, but you and I were BOTH taught to listen to the police and do as they command. Respect them in the uniform. All those flashing lights behind his vehicle were not pizza deliveries trying to get to the next house, they were police and what do you do when you see emergency lights behind you? You pull over.

Bing did not deserve to die, we learned that even though the officer, in the heat of the moment shot multiple times, he only landed 1, that ended Bing's life. Yeah, Bing had a record, still he did not deserve to die, but........if he had just pulled over and not exacerbated the situation, odds are he would still be alive.

Exactly!  Well said! 

[Popeye]

Bing did not deserve to die, we learned that even though the officer, in the heat of the moment shot multiple times, he only landed 1, that ended Bing's life. Yeah, Bing had a record, still he did not deserve to die, but........if he had just pulled over and not exacerbated the situation, odds are he would still be alive.

I understand what you're saying, but you're basically blaming the victim.

Are you saying he is faultless?

Working on the assumption that the facts, as stated earlier, are correct...

Yes. No unarmed person fleeing from the police should be shot and killed. That's like blaming the drunk girl for being raped at a frat party. Yes, maybe she engaged in irresponsible behavior, but no amount of irresponsibility on her part excuses the rapist's actions.

So what exactly is a policeman who has been on a lengthy high speed chase with a suspect supposed to do?  Stop and ask if the suspect has a weapon and risk getting shot himself?  The police have a very difficult job to do.  It's easy to judge when you are not in their position risking your life everyday.  How about teaching our children to have respect for each other?  Respect for yourself, respect for the law, etc.   

[menace1069]

Is it wrong that I don't find this particularly newsworthy?

Do stupid things, get stupid results.  And that doesn't mean that I'm justifying the shooting, but I'm definitely not going to ignore the fact that his fleeing led to the outcome.

BINGO!