Roost Cafe and Coffee shop trying to open on Oak St?

[Steve]

a portion of the residents may perceive they will have been "screwed"

What's more is that it was not a RAP or Jim Love decision, but the City and Planning departments that are siding with the developer. Jim Love voted against it as 150 seat barnyard, and RAP suggested the quaint 60 seat option. But the Planning Committee, stacked with morons who live on the Southside behind gated communities chose to ignore their fellow councilman and the neighborhood community.

The little man be damned here in Jax. The homeowner cannot change out a window without RAP approval, but a developer can run roughshod over the community with a bit of money. I hope they choke on the product they put out, America for sale to the highest bidder.

Can't wait until this place opens up! Just like Mellow Mushroom, everyone will realize it's no big deal when it is finally running. Especially since every neighbor isn't against it. NIMBYs be damned!

I used to live across from that site - a few doors down, though. I wouldn't want a restaurant there. I't different in many ways from Mellow Mushroom because it's surrounded in houses. But whatever. It's easy to moan about "NIMBYs" when you only benefit and are not negatively impacted.

It's very different than MM. MM was in a commercial building surrounded by other commercial buildings in a historically commercial corridor.

Roost is in a commercial building surrounded by residential buildings in a historically residential corridor. The idea here was small scale commercial uses when this thing was built.

I live near here and no, I'm not going to be a martyr and not go in there - if it's good I'll go. It's sort of like when the elected President isn't the guy you voted for - he's still the President and we should all support him.

I do think it's frustrating that both Love and Boyer (district CM and most similar district CM) voted against it, and the suburban CMs voted for it. I'm a fan of consolidation, but this is an example of one of the drawbacks. This is a scenario that Baymeadows and 295 would never deal with it.

[Adam White]

a portion of the residents may perceive they will have been "screwed"

What's more is that it was not a RAP or Jim Love decision, but the City and Planning departments that are siding with the developer. Jim Love voted against it as 150 seat barnyard, and RAP suggested the quaint 60 seat option. But the Planning Committee, stacked with morons who live on the Southside behind gated communities chose to ignore their fellow councilman and the neighborhood community.

The little man be damned here in Jax. The homeowner cannot change out a window without RAP approval, but a developer can run roughshod over the community with a bit of money. I hope they choke on the product they put out, America for sale to the highest bidder.

Can't wait until this place opens up! Just like Mellow Mushroom, everyone will realize it's no big deal when it is finally running. Especially since every neighbor isn't against it. NIMBYs be damned!

I used to live across from that site - a few doors down, though. I wouldn't want a restaurant there. I't different in many ways from Mellow Mushroom because it's surrounded in houses. But whatever. It's easy to moan about "NIMBYs" when you only benefit and are not negatively impacted.

It's very different than MM. MM was in a commercial building surrounded by other commercial buildings in a historically commercial corridor.

Roost is in a commercial building surrounded by residential buildings in a historically residential corridor. The idea here was small scale commercial uses when this thing was built.

I live near here and no, I'm not going to be a martyr and not go in there - if it's good I'll go. It's sort of like when the elected President isn't the guy you voted for - he's still the President and we should all support him.

I do think it's frustrating that both Love and Boyer (district CM and most similar district CM) voted against it, and the suburban CMs voted for it. I'm a fan of consolidation, but this is an example of one of the drawbacks. This is a scenario that Baymeadows and 295 would never deal with it.

Another thing about MM was that a lot of the opposition (if I recall correctly) was either from other merchants who were worried about competition or from resident snobs who thought MM was too "down market" for the Shoppes at Avondale or whatever the hell it was called.

I can appreciate people have concerns about quality of life issues. I hope it works out, because if it does it will be a great addition to the area.

[dp8541]

a portion of the residents may perceive they will have been "screwed"

What's more is that it was not a RAP or Jim Love decision, but the City and Planning departments that are siding with the developer. Jim Love voted against it as 150 seat barnyard, and RAP suggested the quaint 60 seat option. But the Planning Committee, stacked with morons who live on the Southside behind gated communities chose to ignore their fellow councilman and the neighborhood community.

The little man be damned here in Jax. The homeowner cannot change out a window without RAP approval, but a developer can run roughshod over the community with a bit of money. I hope they choke on the product they put out, America for sale to the highest bidder.

Can't wait until this place opens up! Just like Mellow Mushroom, everyone will realize it's no big deal when it is finally running. Especially since every neighbor isn't against it. NIMBYs be damned!

I used to live across from that site - a few doors down, though. I wouldn't want a restaurant there. I't different in many ways from Mellow Mushroom because it's surrounded in houses. But whatever. It's easy to moan about "NIMBYs" when you only benefit and are not negatively impacted.

It's very different than MM. MM was in a commercial building surrounded by other commercial buildings in a historically commercial corridor.

Roost is in a commercial building surrounded by residential buildings in a historically residential corridor. The idea here was small scale commercial uses when this thing was built.

I live near here and no, I'm not going to be a martyr and not go in there - if it's good I'll go. It's sort of like when the elected President isn't the guy you voted for - he's still the President and we should all support him.

I do think it's frustrating that both Love and Boyer (district CM and most similar district CM) voted against it, and the suburban CMs voted for it. I'm a fan of consolidation, but this is an example of one of the drawbacks. This is a scenario that Baymeadows and 295 would never deal with it.

I like your take on this,  that you would not boycott the establishment just because you may have opposed its location.  I do think that both Love and Boyer may have had political reasons for not supporting this (RAP). 

[FlaBoy]

Also, the parking issues in Avondale are because there is a huge strip of restaurants and stores with not much parking. The same can be said of King St. where there is no parking but a lot of places, especially on a Saturday night. This is one place that is a restaurant. Most week nights it will not be busy. There will be some additional parking on the street but that is why residents have driveways. This is not Rogue and Loft, it's a restaurant that will be empty by 10 pm on Wednesday. I get the concerns, but this is much to do about nothing.

[Kay]

a portion of the residents may perceive they will have been "screwed"

What's more is that it was not a RAP or Jim Love decision, but the City and Planning departments that are siding with the developer. Jim Love voted against it as 150 seat barnyard, and RAP suggested the quaint 60 seat option. But the Planning Committee, stacked with morons who live on the Southside behind gated communities chose to ignore their fellow councilman and the neighborhood community.

The little man be damned here in Jax. The homeowner cannot change out a window without RAP approval, but a developer can run roughshod over the community with a bit of money. I hope they choke on the product they put out, America for sale to the highest bidder.

Can't wait until this place opens up! Just like Mellow Mushroom, everyone will realize it's no big deal when it is finally running. Especially since every neighbor isn't against it. NIMBYs be damned!

I used to live across from that site - a few doors down, though. I wouldn't want a restaurant there. I't different in many ways from Mellow Mushroom because it's surrounded in houses. But whatever. It's easy to moan about "NIMBYs" when you only benefit and are not negatively impacted.

It's very different than MM. MM was in a commercial building surrounded by other commercial buildings in a historically commercial corridor.

Roost is in a commercial building surrounded by residential buildings in a historically residential corridor. The idea here was small scale commercial uses when this thing was built.

I live near here and no, I'm not going to be a martyr and not go in there - if it's good I'll go. It's sort of like when the elected President isn't the guy you voted for - he's still the President and we should all support him.

I do think it's frustrating that both Love and Boyer (district CM and most similar district CM) voted against it, and the suburban CMs voted for it. I'm a fan of consolidation, but this is an example of one of the drawbacks. This is a scenario that Baymeadows and 295 would never deal with it.

I like your take on this,  that you would not boycott the establishment just because you may have opposed its location.  I do think that both Love and Boyer may have had political reasons for not supporting this (RAP).

Love and Boyer had LEGAL reasons for not supporting it. 

[tufsu1]

What exactly is the Planning Committee and who are these morons you speak of?

Check the previous posts and stories....they are there and were quoted in the Planning meetings...

Seriously TUFSU!!! Educate yourself! Gosh!!!!

my bad....I was confused....thought maybe Mtrain was referring to the Planning Commission or City Council's Land Use & Zoning Committee....my uneducated self was not aware Jacksonville had a Planning Committee

[Steve]

This is not Rogue and Loft, it's a restaurant that will be empty by 10 pm on Wednesday.

Here's the thing - the zoning change is on the dirt, not directly with the business owner. If someone wants to change the concept to something else that fits into whatever is zoned, they are free to do so.

This is why when developers/business owners make the emotional plea of a nice business that's going to be community friendly it's just that - emotion. Maybe they are going to be community friendly. But, what if they close in three years and someone who isn't so community friendly moves in?

[ProjectMaximus]

Why did these people even buy in Riverside?  Even 20 yrs ago?  Ain't nobody got time for these folks.  People are actually trying to invest and improve the hood.  Move along!

I think that I would be fine with this if I lived next door. However, I completely understand the push back. There are actually folks who love living in Riverside and do not want to be in Oakleaf, but also don't want to be next door to a high impact business. For people buying property next door, they should indeed have to accept a less invasive business in the buildings as originally intended. To say they have no right to fight against a full-liquor restaurant is not accurate.

Anyway, having spoken with some pretty unbiased and very rational folks who are more knowledgeable of the situation, there is indeed a difference between Mellow in Avondale and the Roost here. And as I said, I am happy with it proceeding. I do think it's for the greater good and I would be fine if I was a neighbor.

[JaxAvondale]

a portion of the residents may perceive they will have been "screwed"

What's more is that it was not a RAP or Jim Love decision, but the City and Planning departments that are siding with the developer. Jim Love voted against it as 150 seat barnyard, and RAP suggested the quaint 60 seat option. But the Planning Committee, stacked with morons who live on the Southside behind gated communities chose to ignore their fellow councilman and the neighborhood community.

The little man be damned here in Jax. The homeowner cannot change out a window without RAP approval, but a developer can run roughshod over the community with a bit of money. I hope they choke on the product they put out, America for sale to the highest bidder.

Can't wait until this place opens up! Just like Mellow Mushroom, everyone will realize it's no big deal when it is finally running. Especially since every neighbor isn't against it. NIMBYs be damned!

I used to live across from that site - a few doors down, though. I wouldn't want a restaurant there. I't different in many ways from Mellow Mushroom because it's surrounded in houses. But whatever. It's easy to moan about "NIMBYs" when you only benefit and are not negatively impacted.

It's very different than MM. MM was in a commercial building surrounded by other commercial buildings in a historically commercial corridor.

Roost is in a commercial building surrounded by residential buildings in a historically residential corridor. The idea here was small scale commercial uses when this thing was built.

I live near here and no, I'm not going to be a martyr and not go in there - if it's good I'll go. It's sort of like when the elected President isn't the guy you voted for - he's still the President and we should all support him.

I do think it's frustrating that both Love and Boyer (district CM and most similar district CM) voted against it, and the suburban CMs voted for it. I'm a fan of consolidation, but this is an example of one of the drawbacks. This is a scenario that Baymeadows and 295 would never deal with it.

I like your take on this,  that you would not boycott the establishment just because you may have opposed its location.  I do think that both Love and Boyer may have had political reasons for not supporting this (RAP).

I agree with you. I'm for the project but if I were in the same position as Love then I would have voted against it.

[mtraininjax]

I do think it's frustrating that both Love and Boyer (district CM and most similar district CM) voted against it, and the suburban CMs voted for it. I'm a fan of consolidation, but this is an example of one of the drawbacks. This is a scenario that Baymeadows and 295 would never deal with it.

Without getting too caught up in the correct Planning terminology by people more interested in political correctness than how it affects a neighborhood, this was my entire point. The City and Atlantic Beach not listening to the people who live in the area, not about parking or paint colors, but about what  THEY want in their neighborhood. They live there and to have a group of 5-2 decide that the residents don't know enough about what they want in their neighborhood is disheartening.

In this case, the City Councilman voted against it, the Neighborhood Preservation recommended against it, but those not affected by the change decided to vote for it. This shows me that even though Jim is a good guy, he has less sway and power with others in City Council. Same goes for Boyer. There used to be a time in the Council that if your fellow Council voted against an issue, others in the committee would do the same. Those days are gone.

[MEGATRON]

The City and Atlantic Beach not listening to the people who live in the area, not about parking or paint colors, but about what  THEY want in their neighborhood. They live there and to have a group of 5-2 decide that the residents don't know enough about what they want in their neighborhood is disheartening.

You don't understand land use regulation and property rights.

[JaxAvondale]

I do think it's frustrating that both Love and Boyer (district CM and most similar district CM) voted against it, and the suburban CMs voted for it. I'm a fan of consolidation, but this is an example of one of the drawbacks. This is a scenario that Baymeadows and 295 would never deal with it.

In this case, the City Councilman voted against it, the Neighborhood Preservation recommended against it, but those not affected by the change decided to vote for it. This shows me that even though Jim is a good guy, he has less sway and power with others in City Council. Same goes for Boyer. There used to be a time in the Council that if your fellow Council voted against an issue, others in the committee would do the same. Those days are gone.

I tend to think that he was for the project in a general sense. If he were truly against it then I think the voting would have been more reflective of any real opposition.

I just have a hard time beleving that someone with a business very close to Kickbacks and other residential homes would be total against the project. (Zoning aside)

[Ming The Merciless]

The City and Atlantic Beach not listening to the people who live in the area, not about parking or paint colors, but about what  THEY want in their neighborhood. They live there and to have a group of 5-2 decide that the residents don't know enough about what they want in their neighborhood is disheartening.

You don't understand land use regulation and property rights.

Not to mention a complete lack of understanding of how representative democracies work.

[tufsu1]

Without getting too caught up in the correct Planning terminology by people more interested in political correctness than how it affects a neighborhood, this was my entire point. The City and Atlantic Beach not listening to the people who live in the area, not about parking or paint colors, but about what  THEY want in their neighborhood. They live there and to have a group of 5-2 decide that the residents don't know enough about what they want in their neighborhood is disheartening.

People living in the neighborhoods aren't usually impartial.  Many zoning & land use decisions are in fact made in quasi-judicial hearings.  The outcomes can be legally challenged and one better have solid backing of the law to support the decision made. 

[mtraininjax]

People living in the neighborhoods aren't usually impartial.  Many zoning & land use decisions are in fact made in quasi-judicial hearings.  The outcomes can be legally challenged and one better have solid backing of the law to support the decision made.

Wow, just wow!

You don't understand land use regulation and property rights.

Seeing as how you are an expert, why don't you pontificate "land use regulation and property rights" to the delight of all on the board. I want to be dazzled by the smartest people in the room.

understanding of how representative democracies work.

Its really quite simple, there are the "haves" and the "have nots". the haves have very nice lobbyists and the have nots get screwed by the haves, should I go on?