NC Rescinds Charlotte HRO

[whyisjohngalt]

According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), people who experience intense, persistent gender incongruence can be given the diagnosis of "gender dysphoria."

[whyisjohngalt]

The APA doesn't consider simply being transgender a mental disorder - and I figure they know more about it than either of us does:

http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.aspx


A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder. For these individuals, the significant problem is finding affordable resources, such as counseling, hormone therapy, medical procedures and the social support necessary to freely express their gender identity and minimize discrimination. Many other obstacles may lead to distress, including a lack of acceptance within society, direct or indirect experiences with discrimination, or assault. These experiences may lead many transgender people to suffer with anxiety, depression or related disorders at higher rates than nontransgender persons.
According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), people who experience intense, persistent gender incongruence can be given the diagnosis of "gender dysphoria." Some contend that the diagnosis inappropriately pathologizes gender noncongruence and should be eliminated. Others argue that it is essential to retain the diagnosis to ensure access to care. The International Classification of Diseases (ICD) is under revision and there may be changes to its current classification of intense persistent gender incongruence as "gender identity disorder."

[Adam White]

The APA doesn't consider simply being transgender a mental disorder - and I figure they know more about it than either of us does:

http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.aspx


A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder. For these individuals, the significant problem is finding affordable resources, such as counseling, hormone therapy, medical procedures and the social support necessary to freely express their gender identity and minimize discrimination. Many other obstacles may lead to distress, including a lack of acceptance within society, direct or indirect experiences with discrimination, or assault. These experiences may lead many transgender people to suffer with anxiety, depression or related disorders at higher rates than nontransgender persons.
According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), people who experience intense, persistent gender incongruence can be given the diagnosis of "gender dysphoria." Some contend that the diagnosis inappropriately pathologizes gender noncongruence and should be eliminated. Others argue that it is essential to retain the diagnosis to ensure access to care. The International Classification of Diseases (ICD) is under revision and there may be changes to its current classification of intense persistent gender incongruence as "gender identity disorder."

A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder....


According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), people who experience intense, persistent gender incongruence can be given the diagnosis of "gender dysphoria." Some contend that the diagnosis inappropriately pathologizes gender noncongruence and should be eliminated. Others argue that it is essential to retain the diagnosis to ensure access to care. The International Classification of Diseases (ICD) is under revision and there may be changes to its current classification of intense persistent gender incongruence as "gender identity disorder."

[whyisjohngalt]

Even the citations posted here has conflicting / evolving positions on this disorder.  Or not disorder, whatever.  Obviously open to interpretation and reflects more on personal belief.  It's clear what each of us personally believe.  It's also clear that our search terms will influence results.

I merely was posting an idea to get this passed via ADA.  Instead of rallying support, you would rather have a semantically argument.  No wonder it isn't getting traction.  We would have passed the HRO in Jax if the leadership was open to inclusive strategies instead of "my way or else."

Or not.  It was just some thoughts.  Nothing more.  We can act like arguing online / complaining is going to help but it isn't.  Especially when people that propose alternatives are attacked.

[fsquid]

Charlotte's law exceed the authority they have in the state's constitution.  4 lawsuits filed this morning, so we'll get an answer one way or another from the courts.  I'm sure I've already used the pisser with a trans, so unsure if I would have fought this battle.

[Charles Hunter]

Annual furniture market in High Point NC feeling effects of LGBT hate.http://www.wfmynews2.com/mb/news/local/customers-cancel-attendance-at-high-point-furniture-market-over-bathroom-bill/106302741

[Jimmy]

If memory serves, this started as a bathroom bill and morphed thereafter.

It seems the US is Ok with LGBT until it comes to their kids bathrooms at school.

I have read a few articles about various bathroom bills in various government entities around the country. Many of the smaller school districts were up in arms over accomodation and were fearing lawsuits on both sides.

The fact that we have to legislate bathroom laws is kind of pathetic.

Opponents of the bill, and of laws like this in general, like to label these bills as relating only to bathrooms.  But that's just not the case.  Public restrooms are a component of public accommodations, but after the action of the NC Legislature, restaurants, hotels, and busses can hang up "no LGBT served here" signs and that would be perfectly legal.  It's not just about the bathroom, in fact very little about it has to do with bathroom use.  Opponents go to the bathroom because that's where the emotion is.  It's an old playbook from bygone discrimination fights that still works in some places. 

Like the people who claimed that passing the HRO in Jacksonville would mean that public school girls would have to worry about boys in their bathroom, people should really try to understand what's going on.  In Duval, public schools already affirm the rights of transkids to use the bathroom that conforms to their gender identity.  That's the been the case for years.  OSHA has also issued guidelines that indicate that trans workers should be permitted to use the bathroom that conforms to their gender identity.

There is no law in the state of Florida related to bathroom use.  Dads can take their daughters to the potty without being arrested.  Custodial staff can clean both/all bathrooms.  Caretakers can assist infirm and elderly without repercussion.  The bathroom is a component of the bigger issue, it's it's a side show that the rightwing conflates into the main event.  Very frustrating when it works.  Very satisfying, like in Georgia and Atlantic Beach, when it doesn't.

And then, of course, there's this: https://jaxequality.wordpress.com/2016/01/14/florida-experts-debunk-hro-bathroom-myths/

Bringing as much truth as possible into this deceitful bathroom business is one of the best things we can do to secure equality.

[Tacachale]

If memory serves, this started as a bathroom bill and morphed thereafter.

It seems the US is Ok with LGBT until it comes to their kids bathrooms at school.

I have read a few articles about various bathroom bills in various government entities around the country. Many of the smaller school districts were up in arms over accomodation and were fearing lawsuits on both sides.

The fact that we have to legislate bathroom laws is kind of pathetic.

Opponents of the bill, and of laws like this in general, like to label these bills as relating only to bathrooms.  But that's just not the case.  Public restrooms are a component of public accommodations, but after the action of the NC Legislature, restaurants, hotels, and busses can hang up "no LGBT served here" signs and that would be perfectly legal.  It's not just about the bathroom, in fact very little about it has to do with bathroom use.  Opponents go to the bathroom because that's where the emotion is.  It's an old playbook from bygone discrimination fights that still works in some places. 

Like the people who claimed that passing the HRO in Jacksonville would mean that public school girls would have to worry about boys in their bathroom, people should really try to understand what's going on.  In Duval, public schools already affirm the rights of transkids to use the bathroom that conforms to their gender identity.  That's the been the case for years.  OSHA has also issued guidelines that indicate that trans workers should be permitted to use the bathroom that conforms to their gender identity.

There is no law in the state of Florida related to bathroom use.  Dads can take their daughters to the potty without being arrested.  Custodial staff can clean both/all bathrooms.  Caretakers can assist infirm and elderly without repercussion.  The bathroom is a component of the bigger issue, it's it's a side show that the rightwing conflates into the main event.  Very frustrating when it works.  Very satisfying, like in Georgia and Atlantic Beach, when it doesn't.

And then, of course, there's this: https://jaxequality.wordpress.com/2016/01/14/florida-experts-debunk-hro-bathroom-myths/

Bringing as much truth as possible into this deceitful bathroom business is one of the best things we can do to secure equality.

Yeah, I've been meaning to say this, but the "bathroom bill" stuff is just an invented schtick of the anti-human rights ordinance side. Bathrooms are only a small part of public accommodations, and the trans community is a small part of the LGBT community, meaning real changes any given ordinance will have on peoples' bathroom habits will be vanishingly small. That's especially the case considering that trans people are already using the bathroom of their gender identity, and for those who "pass" easily, it's not an issue even now.

I didn't believe my dad when the "bathroom bill" talk started and he said it would be a silver bullet for the anti-gay crowd. I never believed people would fall for something that's such an obvious and cynical ploy. But that's exactly how it's turning out. It strikes people on a such a visceral level that everything else - least of all the need to guarantee that LGBT people can't be fired or evicted just for being who they are - goes right out the window.

[Tacachale]

Charlotte's law exceed the authority they have in the state's constitution.  4 lawsuits filed this morning, so we'll get an answer one way or another from the courts.  I'm sure I've already used the pisser with a trans, so unsure if I would have fought this battle.

If they really exceeded the authority given by the state's constitution, it would have been revoked in state court, not by the legislature passing a new law. The reality is that the state has only now stripped local governments of the ability to pass non-discrimination ordinances, and they did it through law, not the state constitution. They also pulled some very shady shenanigans to get it passed, which is telling.

[finehoe]

Charlotte's law exceed the authority they have in the state's constitution.  4 lawsuits filed this morning, so we'll get an answer one way or another from the courts.  I'm sure I've already used the pisser with a trans, so unsure if I would have fought this battle.

It's probably unconstitutional in light of Romer v. Evans as well.

[finehoe]

I didn't believe my dad when the "bathroom bill" talk started and he said it would be a silver bullet for the anti-gay crowd. I never believed people would fall for something that's such an obvious and cynical ploy. But that's exactly how it's turning out. It strikes people on a such a visceral level that everything else - least of all the need to guarantee that LGBT people can't be fired or evicted just for being who they are - goes right out the window.

It's similar to the arguments against gays serving in the military used back in the 90s, when many opponents thought that dying in combat would be a blessing compared to having to take a shower next to a homo.

[Tacachale]

I didn't believe my dad when the "bathroom bill" talk started and he said it would be a silver bullet for the anti-gay crowd. I never believed people would fall for something that's such an obvious and cynical ploy. But that's exactly how it's turning out. It strikes people on a such a visceral level that everything else - least of all the need to guarantee that LGBT people can't be fired or evicted just for being who they are - goes right out the window.

It's similar to the arguments against gays serving in the military used back in the 90s, when many opponents thought that dying in combat would be a blessing compared to having to take a shower next to a homo.

Yeah, I hadn't thought about that, but the rhetoric is really similar. They used the "shower issue" right up to the point all the restrictions were removed. Probably after.

[vicupstate]

I didn't believe my dad when the "bathroom bill" talk started and he said it would be a silver bullet for the anti-gay crowd. I never believed people would fall for something that's such an obvious and cynical ploy. But that's exactly how it's turning out.

Listen to 'conservative' talk radio for one day, or hell just a couple of hours, and you will lose any shock from the gullibility of their audience. There is literally nothing too stupid, illogical or impossible that they won't buy it, hook line and sinker.  I wish I could think of a way to make money off of their gullibility.  It would have to be easier than taking candy from a baby or doing any kind of work.   

[whyisjohngalt]

Good points.

[brainstormer]

I wish I could think of a way to make money off of their gullibility.  It would have to be easier than taking candy from a baby or doing any kind of work.   

Trump found a way. Perhaps he can give you some advice.