Transit in Jacksonville, Let's Get Started!

[Coolyfett]

We can have the edge on all of these other cities by building out the Skyway to the stadium, San Marco, Riverside. Also building a local streetcar starter line. These would allow a passenger wanting to avoid UNION TERMINAL or to stop over in downtown the option of transfering at San Marco/Stadium/Riverside stations and using alternate transport.

Another hidden benefit, with rail up and runnning the current bus fleet will give us twice the coverage of the present system. Dozens of new routes open up as connectors and cut across lines, as nearly every one of the buses currently trudges into downtown to connect. That system will be gone, with buses doing the local work and the rail doing most of the trunk lines. If the choice of trolley bus really happens, our BRT lines might even do it fixed (meaning new development) and green.

IMHO that is what they should do first and NOW!! Take care of those people first. Then move to the outer realm.

Plus Ock, a "loop" could also be built inside the I295 beltway to connect points around the core.  Atlanta has a similar concept proposed.  Theirs, as you know, is a radial system that reaches the suburbs but will also have a loop line surrounding the core to better connect the "arms" reaching the burbs and to remove some of the load from their 5 points station.

That loop is the final part or what MARTA is doing up here. Many riders would like for the line to extended north, but the Atlanta Metro government is like 12 governments in one, Jacksonville has it easier one government controls everything. They have also proposed an Amtrak/Marta/Greyhound building/station like Jacksonville has. I'm curious to see which one actually gets built first.

[Ocklawaha]

With limited freight on that line, you could probably get away with passenger trains using the track in the day and freight overnight.  That's the way it works with New Jersey's RiverLink and that's what Orlando is shooting for.  Nevertheless, if you have a conductor text messaging instead of paying attention to the track signals, we could still have passenger trains run into each other so automatic braking should be considered

ATC or PTC (automatic train control or positive train control) are available off the shelf. These are signal systems with small electronic interfaces with the train or locomotive controls. Run a red signal, and the brakes set up - halting the train. It is already in use in our area, and frankly isn't THAT much more then regular signals. Do we put a price on the lives saved? If so, how much?

Passenger by day and freight by night isn't going to fly on our CSX A line, FEC line or CSX west or central FL "S" line. Maybe the old "S" line in downtown Jax, but even north of the Trout, it could be the unstoppable force meeting the immovable object. As port traffic picks up, there will be increasing pressure to route it off of the passenger route, over a detour, or open-access terminal company.

Lastly, I know what the news broadcast said, but they are simply WRONG. Conductors don't run trains, and whatever the conductor was doing, he wasn't in the locomotive. My understanding is that the engineer was killed and the conductor badly injured....He was at the bottom of the stairs under a few other passengers. While I don't support the "old" full crew rules, that many states held until about 1970, I would favor a modified passenger train crew rule, but this wouldn't have much effect on commuter districts, it might add a few to Amtrak's rolls.

CREW BOSS/TRAIN CAPTAIN: The Conductor
Location:

Locomotive - Engineer + Flagman
Baggage Car - Baggage Master
Passenger coaches - 1 attendant per 2 cars.
Dining Car - Chef - 2 assistants - 2 food servers - passenger services representative
Lounge - Bar tender - 1-2 assistants and servers
Sleeping Cars - 1 porter per 2 cars
Featured Long-Distance "cruise trains" roaming - RN , PA or Paramedic
Featured Long-Distance "cruise trains" fixed location - Hair, nail, stylist, massage therapist.
roaming - Brakeman
roaming - Conductor

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

With limited freight on that line, you could probably get away with passenger trains using the track in the day and freight overnight.  That's the way it works with New Jersey's RiverLink and that's what Orlando is shooting for.  Nevertheless, if you have a conductor text messaging instead of paying attention to the track signals, we could still have passenger trains run into each other so automatic braking should be considered

Passenger by day and freight by night isn't going to fly on our CSX A line, FEC line or CSX west or central FL "S" line. Maybe the old "S" line in downtown Jax, but even north of the Trout, it could be the unstoppable force meeting the immovable object. As port traffic picks up, there will be increasing pressure to route it off of the passenger route, over a detour, or open-access terminal company. OCKLAWAHA

I have a question for you, Ock.  Why would passenger rail during the day/freight at night work on the Orlando portion of the CSX A, but not between Downtown and Clay County?  Assuming the Orlando deal goes through, other than the trains to the paper mill and power plant in Palaka, what other big rail customers are there between Downtown Jax and the proposed Orlando commuter rail line?

[Ocklawaha]

A fairly solid stream of concrete plants and building materials from downtown all the way to the Port of Palatka. There is a weekday turn (also called drill or peddler trians) that go out and work these  daily customers. Add in a dedicated block of cars to the papermill from two different railroads (NS and CSX) Part of the deal in allowing the abandonment of NS to Palatka was getting that support call that allows them access to the mill via CSX from JAX. (still a huge mistake by FDOT - another story - another time). The utilitie trains run in a non-stop cycle, in fact they never stop if they are earning their keep. They load on the move and unload while moving. Time of arrival depends on the overall cycle schedule.

We are unique in our flip on the schedules of Florida. Even if Amtrak loads us up with trains, the pattern has ALWAYS been southbound in the morning, Northbound in the evening. So if Amtrak recovers the 8 oir so daily trains cut during the last 30 years, we have to sprint around them going the wrong way. This is why I keep pushing JTA to get Amtrak to our rail meetings and get them involved NOW. We can't afford to scrap one in favor of the other, when we can easily have both. It's all in the signals, what do you see? I see high green all the way!

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

A fairly solid stream of concrete plants and building materials from downtown all the way to the Port of Palatka. There is a weekday turn (also called drill or peddler trians) that go out and work these  daily customers. Add in a dedicated block of cars to the papermill from two different railroads (NS and CSX) Part of the deal in allowing the abandonment of NS to Palatka was getting that support call that allows them access to the mill via CSX from JAX. (still a huge mistake by FDOT - another story - another time). The utilitie trains run in a non-stop cycle, in fact they never stop if they are earning their keep. They load on the move and unload while moving. Time of arrival depends on the overall cycle schedule.

How do these compare with the freight line RiverLine runs on between Camden and Trenton, NJ?  That one appears to be a lot more congested, yet they were able to overcome this.  However, NJ Transit purchased that line from Conrail for $67 million.  Also, how will CSX continue to serve the significant number of rail customers in the Orlando area?  Personally, I believe there will be enough capacity to run both freight and commuter rail at the same time, but I'm interested in learning more about how these other cities have gotten those types of deals approved.

We are unique in our flip on the schedules of Florida. Even if Amtrak loads us up with trains, the pattern has ALWAYS been southbound in the morning, Northbound in the evening. So if Amtrak recovers the 8 oir so daily trains cut during the last 30 years, we have to sprint around them going the wrong way. This is why I keep pushing JTA to get Amtrak to our rail meetings and get them involved NOW. We can't afford to scrap one in favor of the other, when we can easily have both. It's all in the signals, what do you see? I see high green all the way![/color][/b]

OCKLAWAHA

Amtrak should definately be there.  They are a key player in Jax, when it comes to improving local passenger service.

[blizz01]

On Tuesday, Clay County approved $5 million dollars to buy 29 acres in the Doctors Inlet area for a future transit station. The property is south and west of the intersection of County Road 220 and the CSX railroad line.


http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/092708/nec_336932926.shtml

Man, that story was buried a little too deep.........

[JeffreyS]

On Tuesday, Clay County approved $5 million dollars to buy 29 acres in the Doctors Inlet area for a future transit station. The property is south and west of the intersection of County Road 220 and the CSX railroad line.


http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/092708/nec_336932926.shtml

Man, that story was buried a little too deep.........

That is good news all of that area seems to be developing so fast I was afraid that parcel would not be available when we finally get transit started. Personal not this is where I would catch the train and ride into downtown every day.