Transit in Jacksonville, Let's Get Started!

[Tripoli1711]

I couldn't find the post that had the proposed rail sites, so I will ask this question here.  Is any thought in these initial studies being given to the future as it relates to potential transfer sites?  Is the idea that even 50 years from now all riders must go downtown, because that is the impression I have gotten from what I have been seeing.  For example, let's say at some point in time rail extends to the Regency area.  If a rider wished to take the train to a southern point such as the Mandarin area, it seems like per the present ideas the rider would have to go downtown to transfer to the correct train.  Shouldn't one of the San Marco stations serve as a transfer station so that anyone riding downtown from Regency would pass thru that station and have the option to transfer to points south from San Marco?  Is that already in the works and I have missed it?  I know the initial network will be small and mainly serve the inner core, but is there any thought to plan for the future by constructing stations that have the capacity to one day serve as a transfer station?

[Ocklawaha]

I couldn't find the post that had the proposed rail sites, so I will ask this question here.  Is any thought in these initial studies being given to the future as it relates to potential transfer sites?  Is the idea that even 50 years from now all riders must go downtown, because that is the impression I have gotten from what I have been seeing.  For example, let's say at some point in time rail extends to the Regency area.  If a rider wished to take the train to a southern point such as the Mandarin area, it seems like per the present ideas the rider would have to go downtown to transfer to the correct train.  Shouldn't one of the San Marco stations serve as a transfer station so that anyone riding downtown from Regency would pass thru that station and have the option to transfer to points south from San Marco?  Is that already in the works and I have missed it?  I know the initial network will be small and mainly serve the inner core, but is there any thought to plan for the future by constructing stations that have the capacity to one day serve as a transfer station?

The initial Commuter Rail network would be about 30 - 60 - 90 -120 miles depending on which segments are built first or if we open all of it or part of it as a system.

Serious consideration is now being given to LIGHT RAIL to the beaches, it might be phased as
Downtown - Arlington 
Arlington - Regency
Regency - Beaches
Light rail would probably follow the Arlington Expressway and cross the new Matthews Bridge.

Due to railroad geography all trains would head for UNION TERMINAL where cross the platform connections could be made just as in Dallas, Denver etc.

We can have the edge on all of these other cities by building out the Skyway to the stadium, San Marco, Riverside. Also building a local streetcar starter line. These would allow a passenger wanting to avoid UNION TERMINAL or to stop over in downtown the option of transfering at San Marco/Stadium/Riverside stations and using alternate transport.

Another hidden benefit, with rail up and runnning the current bus fleet will give us twice the coverage of the present system. Dozens of new routes open up as connectors and cut across lines, as nearly every one of the buses currently trudges into downtown to connect. That system will be gone, with buses doing the local work and the rail doing most of the trunk lines. If the choice of trolley bus really happens, our BRT lines might even do it fixed (meaning new development) and green.

OCKLAWAHA

[Jason]

Plus Ock, a "loop" could also be built inside the I295 beltway to connect points around the core.  Atlanta has a similar concept proposed.  Theirs, as you know, is a radial system that reaches the suburbs but will also have a loop line surrounding the core to better connect the "arms" reaching the burbs and to remove some of the load from their 5 points station.

[Tripoli1711]

I like the concept of the loop and that would address what I was thinking.  Also, the proposal stated with the extended skyway service would work too, though not quite as well.  I understand the limitations and I am really thinking very long term here.  That's why I was wondering whether when sites are picked for stations it gives the potential for future expansion.  I just worry about the waste you see so frequently with expressways.  The determination is made to add an extra lane when 2 extra lanes are really needed.  They add one, it takes years to complete, and within 5 years they begin construction on the other.  Why not just wait until the funding is there and build 2 at once?  So I was just worried that you build a station, then 15 years later say, oh, whoops, we need more room here and this site won't work, now what?

[Jason]

That's why, as many have stated, a comprehensive long term plans needs to be completed before anymore transportation modifications are started.  That'll weed out most of the problems down the road.

[Ocklawaha]

Get out your big purple crayons boys and girls, here are a couple of maps so YOU can show us your stuff!

I couldn't find the post that had the proposed rail sites, so I will ask this question here.  Is any thought in these initial studies being given to the future as it relates to potential transfer sites?

Plus Ock, a "loop" could also be built inside the I295 beltway to connect points around the core.  Atlanta has a similar concept proposed.  Theirs, as you know, is a radial system that reaches the suburbs but will also have a loop line surrounding the core to better connect the "arms" reaching the burbs and to remove some of the load from their 5 points station.

I like the concept of the loop and that would address what I was thinking.  Also, the proposal stated with the extended skyway service would work too, though not quite as well.  I understand the limitations and I am really thinking very long term here.  That's why I was wondering whether when sites are picked for stations it gives the potential for future expansion.

Here's a map of downtown rail lines, with my proposed SKYWAY and STREETCAR build-out for the core. Note I did NOT include LRT to the beaches on the New Matthews Bridge/Tunnel as this proposal is dependent on a new bridge or tunnel. In the core the LRT would/could use the streetcar lines. This also shows the Skyway build out, with the possible exception of the Court House, but in consideration of much cheaper Trolley Bus, this is probably all the Skyway needs to be useful. Note the transfer from Commuter Rail to Skyway at the FEC and Atlantic in San Marco, negates the current consultants plans for a complex rail station at Prudential Drive. Also note that the "S" line is split in my concept, the Springfield Jct - Gateway Mall portion becomes Streetcar/LRT, and the Springfield Jct - Union Terminal portion becomes Commuter Rail.


Backing off on the focus, this gives everyone a broad view of the current rails in Jacksonville, with the only addition being the "S" line. The "S" was once the Seaboard Air Line Railroads mainline between Richmond, VA and Miami, FL. Today part of it is preserved as an urban trail, the other 50% is growing up in weeds. It runs from Gateway Mall to Union Station in a giant backward "S".



PEACE OUT JACKSONVILLE!

OCKLAWAHA

[fsujax]

Nice picture Ock.....I like it.

[TD*]

What is the possibility and time frame realistically in seeing either a light rail or a commuter rail system in place in the Jacksonville Area?

[JeffreyS]

The Clay county commuter rail line could in theory start construction late next year if the Orlando deal goes through.  Maybe two years after to ride.

We could start on the Jacksonville owned S line anytime but much more in the way of construction.

[thelakelander]

Probably a decade with the JTA, FTA and city all involved.  If it were a priority and locally funded, we could have a short starter line running in three years or so.

[TD*]

Sad, but I guess 10 years is better than nothing.

[blizz01]

So, is Clay County on the "fast track" (no pun intended)?  What is the significance of the Orlando deal?

[thelakelander]

No Clay is not on the fast track.  However, that entire line (CSX A) between Clay and Downtown will get a boost if the Orlando deal goes through.  The boost will come in the form of the Orlando deal requiring a significant portion of existing and future freight traffic to be shifted over to the CSX S Line.  This means there will be capacity here for potential commuter rail along that corridor, making it ideal for quick implementation.  Btw, this deal would also fund CSX's Springfield bypass for JaxPort traffic, which would have the side effect of clearing the Northside lines for commuter rail as well.

[ProjectMaximus]

So forget about the FTA then. let's get it going in three years or so!

of course, with the Metrolink crash out in LA, and considering we'd also be sharing freight and commuter on the same track, now I'd definitely like to have that automatic braking technology in place, which would mean higher costs...

Probably a decade with the JTA, FTA and city all involved.  If it were a priority and locally funded, we could have a short starter line running in three years or so.

[thelakelander]

So forget about the FTA then. let's get it going in three years or so!

Right on!  I've been on board with this idea since I found out the city already has $100 million set aside, that freight traffic being reduced on the CSX A and that the city already owns the S-Line ROW.  That's more than enough to get a starter up and running and to fund annual O&M expenses for a couple of years.

of course, with the Metrolink crash out in LA, and considering we'd also be sharing freight and commuter on the same track, now I'd definitely like to have that automatic braking technology in place, which would mean higher costs...

With limited freight on that line, you could probably get away with passenger trains using the track in the day and freight overnight.  That's the way it works with New Jersey's RiverLink and that's what Orlando is shooting for.  Nevertheless, if you have a conductor text messaging instead of paying attention to the track signals, you could still have passenger trains run into each other so automatic braking should be considered.