Is this the South's most underrated downtown?

[ProjectMaximus]

Don't let the pop numbers fool you either. The city limits are tightly drawn and no other city or area has wanted to incorporate for a long time. The MSA is about 850k so it's about 2/3 of Jax's size.

Thanks for sharing! And the CSA is over 1.4 million, so just barely behind Jax.

[thelakelander]

CSAs are pretty weird and hard to compare apples to apples. For example, Palm Coast is a part of Orlando's CSA. Then some metros, like Tampa and Lakeland, aren't CSAs despite their downtowns being less than 30 miles apart and their MSA's being immediately adjacent to one another. Without a doubt, there's more of a connection between Tampa and Lakeland than Palm Coast and Orlando.

From my travels over the years, Greenville's metro reminds me more of Florida's MSAs where there's no real dominant central city (ie. Lakeland, Deltona-Daytona, Sarasota-Bradenton, etc.).  Instead there's several small city pre WWII cities engulfed by lots of low density late 20th century sprawl. Most of these metro's largest cities are the same size or slightly larger than Greenville and the scale of their cores are pretty similar.

Jax's MSA is more traditional, where there's a dominate central city with historic characteristics of a pre-WWII urbanized core. Out of the South Carolina MSAs, Jax's development pattern is more historically comparable to Charleston's, where there's lots of sprawl radiating out from a single larger center.

[MusicMan]

Downtown Spartanburg is nice but in truth does not compare to Greenville. When I lived there (70's to 80's) they were referred to as the "twin cities."

One twin has grown on steroids, while the other has not.

FYI there is a fantastic original buidling stock in both towns for fans of beautiful residential neighborhoods.

[WmNussbaum]

I doubt this downtown is underrated by anyone who has been there. The stores, restaurants and attractions could hardly fail to please. It has something for everyone. It probably helps that there is a large university - Furman - nearby.

[thelakelander]

Furman's enrollment is less than JU's.

[MusicMan]

Furman's enrollment was 2940 (in 2014) according to their website.  Not sure what JU is.

The campus at Furman University is stunning.  Master planned in the 1950's it is now "grown up" and one of the nicest places you can imagine. I spent many summers there teaching at the SC Governors School for the Arts and it was always a great place to be. In the Fall the changing leaves are amazing. Academically very highly regarded.

[thelakelander]

JU is +3k.

[JaxJersey-licious]

Another great example of a commonly overlooked city that successfully turned around their downtown is Des Moines, Iowa.Their downtown was dead in the water with multiple failed attempts at revitalization for decades and now they have over 10,000 residents. Maybe worth a MJ Jax-shaming visit, but I'd love to hear from anyone that's been there lately or in the past for their thoughts.

Here's an interesting article on how civic leaders got together to make it one of the hipper new cities in America:

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/how-des-moines-iowa-got-cool-213552

[CCMjax]

I doubt this downtown is underrated by anyone who has been there. The stores, restaurants and attractions could hardly fail to please. It has something for everyone. It probably helps that there is a large university - Furman - nearby.

I would say Clemson grads have more of an impact on Greenville's economy and progress than Furman.  Possibly even USC grads.  Those are much bigger universities fairly close to Greenville.  I worked with mostly Clemson grads when I lived there.  Didn't meet one person that actually went to Furman or the mighty Bob Jones University!  Furman is outside the city as well in the foothills, not in the center.  Beautiful campus though.

[vicupstate]

How does downtown Spartanburg compare?

Spartanburg does not have a river to build off of like Greenville has done.  They have a nice park pretty close to DT, but it is not the draw that Falls Park is for Greenville.  Spartanburg followed the Charlotte model of building urban suburban office buildings to revive DT.  As we know that doesn't work. 

However, in the last 7-8 years and particularly the last 4 or so, Spartanburg has gotten it's act together.  Residential has been added to the mix in a significant way, the pedestrian experience is now the focus and there is some solid organic growth occurring.  Arts and local retail have been emphasized with considerable success.  A major upscale hotel was built a few years back and another one is under construction now.  It really seems like they have turned the corner over there.       

[vicupstate]

Another great example of a commonly overlooked city that successfully turned around their downtown is Des Moines, Iowa.Their downtown was dead in the water with multiple failed attempts at revitalization for decades and now they have over 10,000 residents. Maybe worth a MJ Jax-shaming visit, but I'd love to hear from anyone that's been there lately or in the past for their thoughts.

Here's an interesting article on how civic leaders got together to make it one of the hipper new cities in America:

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/how-des-moines-iowa-got-cool-213552

I saw this article but didn't have a chance to read it at the time. I did a quick drive thru just before dusk about 2.3 years ago.  I wasn't expecting to be impressed but it was pretty nice.  It might have been even more impressed had I not just seen Minneapolis for the first time.  The midwest really does have some cool cities.

[krazeeboi]

I've never been, but now I really want to go.  It looks like Chattanooga.  Is that accurate?

There are similarities, but most of downtown Chattanooga's revitalization has occurred within close proximity of its riverfront, which is somewhat separated from the CBD. Its downtown has a larger footprint while Greenville's is more compact.

[thelakelander]

Chattanooga is historically a larger city. Thus, it's CBD is much larger than Greenville's.

[vicupstate]

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/2016/03/07/greenville-wins-no-3-best-downtown-livability/81429518/


The No. 3 best downtown in America belongs to Greenville in this years Livability.com rankings, marking the second year in a row in the Top 5 on the national website's and moving up one spot from last year.

Topping the "Top 10 Best Downtown 2016" was Alexandria, Virginia, with  Santa Monica, California coming in second.

Following Greenville on the list are Seattle suburb Bellevue, Washington; Pittsburgh. Pennsylvania; Boise, Idaho; Tempe, Arizona; Dallas suburb Plano, Texas; Colorado Spings, Colorado; and Chicago suburb Evanston, Illinois.

Greenville joined Alexandria, Pittsburgh and Evanston as the only cities to stay on the list from last year.

The list was culled from more than 2,000 small and mid-sized cities and takes into account the elements of a downtown that provide a well-rounded blend of entertainment, culture, housing, walkability, diversity, affordability and rising population.

The finalists were selected from a group of 200 based on data, experiences and a desire to include a diversity of geography and size.

The list goes beyond identifying "places with more than just a quaint Main Street."

"Having a great downtown is about more than just great stores, and great restaurants," says Matt Carmichael, editor of Livability.com. "A great downtown needs people. Great cities need great spaces to gather. These cities and towns are wonderful places to get out and engage with your friends, family and other residents."

The website pointed to specific attributes, such as downtown's The Trappe Door restaurant among 120 independent, "one-of-a-kind" restaurants contained in a 10-block area of downtown.

"Downtown's arts scene reflects the city's growing diversity, with venues that draw nationally acclaimed performers, museums and small galleries and studios," according to the website. "While downtown provides residents with a modern, urban environment, there are plenty of ways to enjoy Mother Nature, starting with Falls Park on the Reedy River."

Greenville placed No. 4 on the list last year for Livability's "Top 10 Best Downtowns 2015," behind Pittsburgh, Minneapolis and Indianapolis.

The rankings for 2016:

Alexandria, VA
Santa Monica, CA
Greenville, SC
Bellevue, WA
Pittsburgh, PA
Boise, ID
Tempe, AZ
Plano, TX
Colorado Springs, CO
Evanston, IL

[JaxJersey-licious]

^^^^^^^^^
I will click on metrojacksonville.com banner ads until I get carpel tunnel for the site to do a 10 week learning from series on each of these downtowns