Congress is trying to restart Amtrak service to NO

[spuwho]

Looks like Congress is trying to restore Amtrak service in the Gulf area, but Orlando & Mobile is the focus, not Jacksonville (except by bus).

The biggest issue is that Alabama DOT doesn't have the funding. 

After Katrina, all the rail funding went to pay Nick Saban and Gus Malzahn and their staff because winning football is more important.    (just joking)

Per Trains:

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2015/12/14-gulf-coast-meetings

Gulf Coast passenger rail advocates have at least five options

MOBILE, Ala. — Five options are already on the table for restoring passenger service to the U.S. Gulf Coast — little more than a week after Congress charged a Southern commission with the task.



The Southern Rail Commission has released the findings of an Amtrak-compiled report, "Potential Gulf Coast Service Restorations Options," which projects schedules, equipment requirements, costs, ridership, and revenue for five different scenarios that could possibly re-launch passenger service between New Orleans and Orlando, Fla. Commission members released the report following three days of briefings with civic leaders at towns along the former route of the tri-weekly Sunset Limited east of New Orleans last week.

Congress tasked the commission with organizing a Gulf Coast Rail Service Working Group with the responsibility of evaluating service options and developing a funding strategy through the recently passed "Fixing America's Surface Transportation" Act.

The legislation authorizes $500,000 for the next two fiscal years for the initiative, but Commission members know that enlisting financial support from communities along the route will be key in restoring a service that will also boost economic development. That's why they made 11 presentations to local officials over three days before releasing the report last Friday.

The Amtrak study concludes that Alternative A, calling for an extension of the City of New Orleans to Orlando and running a separate round-trip from New Orleans to Mobile, Ala., on an opposite time-of-day schedule, is the option which would produce the highest passenger miles, ridership, and ticket revenue, but would require $9.49 million of operating support. Here are the five alternatives:
City of New Orleans extended overnight to Orlando plus an additional New Orleans-Mobile round-trip (Alternative A)
City of New Orleans extended to Orlando — no short-distance round-trip (Alternative A1)
Two daily New Orleans-Mobile round-trips (Alternative B)
Two daily New Orleans-Mobile round-trips — one extended with a Thruway bus to Jacksonville (Alternative B1)
Stand-alone New Orleans-Orlando overnight train (Alternative C)

Because Alternative A includes a state-supported train, this combination would require a $3.78 million contribution from Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama with the balance of the $9.49 million funded by Amtrak because the City of New Orleans Orlando extension travels more than 750 miles.

Unlike a previous 2009 report, this Amtrak study does not incorporate the costs of buying new equipment or rehabilitating stations. It also doesn't include additional infrastructure improvements that might be required on host railroad CSX Transportation right-of-way; previous improvements Amtrak and the railroad agreed upon when the Sunset was extended to Florida in 1993 were based on tri-weekly operation. Commission members expect to take an inspection trip within the next few months to give all the stakeholders an idea of what work needs to be done to restore service.

[Tacachale]

Seems dumb to skip Jacksonville. This is the Sunset Limited, right? Doesn't that train have to go through Jacksonville to get to Orlando?

[thelakelander]

LOL. So they are proposing to use track through Jax but not stop in Jax? No wonder Amtrak is such a mess.

[spuwho]

LOL. So they are proposing to use track through Jax but not stop in Jax? No wonder Amtrak is such a mess.

The problem is the Jacksonville Amshack is a mile or two north of the turn onto the line to Orlando. So eastbound trains from New Orleans would have to make a backup move to reach it. That is why they list the "overnight" as having no stops in Jacksonville.

So I am assuming by "bus" they mean the train would make an intermediate stop before it reached downtown for the turn.

Now, if the JT was still functional, they would still have to back the train out to the wye to reach the southbound track, but it wouldn't be nearly as difficult as you wouldn't have to traverse 2 yards rump first.

Ock could probably detail the movement requirements in more detail.

Either way, the plan outlined here was done on the cheap and it assumes most all eastbound traffic out of NO will want to go straight to Orlando.

For those thinking they can recover ROW the NS gave up between Lake City and Orlando, forget that. Gainesville already has redeveloped it and is no longer usable. South of Gainesville, they could have connected the FNOR and the FCEN

[Tacachale]

^I guess that makes sense. Though it's kind of a stupid place for a station if can't reach southbound tracks without difficulty. I recall that the reason Amtrak moved it was because there was some kind of vandalism that made the FEC tracks at the Jacksonville Terminal unusable, so any train wanting to reach the station had to go past and then back up, or something like that. It sounds like that should have been an easier problem to fix than the problem they introduced by building an inaccessible "Amshack" nowhere near anything.

Oh well, hopefully we finally see some movement on the regional transit center and we can get Amtrak - and maybe Brightline - back at the terminal.

[CCMjax]

^I guess that makes sense. Though it's kind of a stupid place for a station if can't reach southbound tracks without difficulty. I recall that the reason Amtrak moved it was because there was some kind of vandalism that made the FEC tracks at the Jacksonville Terminal unusable, so any train wanting to reach the station had to go past and then back up, or something like that. It sounds like that should have been an easier problem to fix than the problem they introduced by building an inaccessible "Amshack" nowhere near anything.

Oh well, hopefully we finally see some movement on the regional transit center and we can get Amtrak - and maybe Brightline - back at the terminal.

Add this to the List of Hilarity regarding planning decisions that have been made in this city in the last several decades.  Efficient infrastructure is not Jacksonville's specialty.

[spuwho]

As far as I can tell, the only thing close to "vandalism" was the truth with Ock climbing into the passenger tunnels that JTA and FDOT said didnt exist.

 

[spuwho]

Thinking outside the box here.

Strategically, the best way for Amtrak to service Orlando would be to use the AAF ROW on the FEC and then make the turn to Orlando and take passengers right into the new transportation center at the airport.

Once there they could connect to almost all of the local options to reach their planned destination in the area.

Since AAF would already have the JAX to MCO traffic and the JAX to Miami Central, Amtrak eastbounds from NO could make only 1-2 stops a day in JAX for connections going north and let the overnights blow on through. Amtrak could even offer NO to Miami Central express trains that dont stop in Jax at all.

Then people can reach the new tribal casinos planned for downtown Miami or get to the cruise terminals.

Of course this would all hinge on turning JT back into a multi-modal hub where connections can be made.

The only flaw in this approach is that Amtrak will have to keep up the route to Tampa and to use the JT would have to make the same "back out" if the Amshack is removed or have most of the Tampa trains run as express and not even stop at JT.

If AAF ever reaches Tampa in our lifetimes via an MCO extension, Amtrak may not wish to even stop in JAX at all and take southbounds straight through and stop in Green Cove Springs and Deland instead.

[Tacachale]

Why would they still have to "back out" at the Jax Terminal if it was redone? Wouldn't they already be headed south over the bridge anyway?

[thelakelander]

The Jax Terminal is slightly east of the CSX A line that Amtrak currently runs on.

[Tacachale]

The Jax Terminal is slightly east of the CSX A line that Amtrak currently runs on.

Sorry, I was confused - FEC goes over the bridge, CSX goes down the tracks near Riverside. What I don't understand is why that wasn't that a problem before the move from the Terminal? And it certainly doesn't seem like the current Amshack makes things a lot (or any) better. Would it be something that could be fixed with redeveloping the terminal?

[thelakelander]

The isolated Amshack makes things worse. Redeveloping the old terminal would place Jax in better position. However, any train using CSX tracks will still have to back up since the terminal is on the FEC.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

As far as I can tell, the only thing close to "vandalism" was the truth with Ock climbing into the passenger tunnels that JTA and FDOT said didnt exist.

 

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-jun-history-in-pictures-the-jacksonville-terminal/page/5

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=9304.15

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=781.0

[Ocklawaha]

First the reasons that Amtrak left the grand dame of railroad temples downtown was cost. The Postal Service gave up the Railway Post Office and scrapped millions of dollars worth of equipment (older folks will recall when you could mail a letter to DC overnight). The RPO fiasco hastened the demise of all passenger service on the railroads, the failure of the Brobdingnagian REA or Railway Express Agency (younger folks think UPS+FEDEX on steroids) didn't help matters, as it left only the passenger and his suitcase as a revenue source. Amtrak was in a station designed for 15M passengers per year, restaurant, gift shops, barber, jeweler, snack bar, 29 tracks and arguably one of the largest RPO and the largest REA facility in the nation serving:

The Champion - NY-TPA/MIA daily
The Silver Meteor - NY-TPA/MIA daily
The Silver Star - NY-TPA/MIA daily
The Miamian - NY-MIA seasonal
The Floridian - CHI-TPA/MIA daily

Mismatched equipment (cars that didn't mate as in AC and Heat systems), aging fleet, and finally a Democratic campaign to 'eliminate the national debit by butchering Amtrak,' left us with the two lousy trains we have today. During this one-way trip to hell, Amtrak divested itself of the expense and bailed from our station and many other large terminals all across the nation.

The one mile back-in move to the 'A' line south was once controlled by the Dennis Street Interlocking tower. By City ordinance all trains 'MUST' back into the old station with the exception of the Florida East Coast trains which 'run-through' the station.

For better or worse, we are stuck with the Amshack and a leadership that has abandoned rail, making little to no effort to better the rail transit/transportation situation on the First Coast. The station can be accessed from the gulf coast mainline via the CSX Intermodal Yard/Duval Ramp facility out by Prichard Road. Specifically the train would enter from Duval County from the west, turn north onto the yard lead/bypass (located just north of the I-10/I-295W interchange) then travel northbound to the CSX mainline junction (located just west of the New Kings Road/I-295W interchange) hence southeast into the Amtrak Station. Beyond that its just head Southeast-South through the old Beaver Street/Dennis Street Interlocking plants and south on the 'A' line. Heading west you simply reverse the process and yes, it might require the addition or lease of a mile of extra track passing through the busy rail yard but don't expect our city officials to line up at the door for that one.

As for the 'SUNSET LIMITED' my thoughts are:
NORL/MOB - Two round trips daily is the only way the route will ever approach a positive cash situation.
NORL/MOB/JAX - Again you need two round trips each way daily for a decent return, but with some of the slowest track in the east, it is hard to imagine a scenario where this segment is viable as a stand-alone route. It can be viable to use a segment of slow running as a small portion of a longer more complex route provided that the overall times are comparable with other modes, in this case they simply are not. 
LA/ORL - Forget it, the times are just wrong no matter how you cut it.
CHI/NORL/ORL - Amtrak eliminated the 'Floridian' a daily Chicago/TPA/MIA train for political reasons. From day one the Floridian was not on the premier route to Florida and it suffered greatly from the lousy track conditions north of Waycross. The former City of Miami Route (sister train of The City of New Orleans) running from CHI-Memphis-Birmingham-Columbus-Waycross-JAX-TPA/MIA was a better more popular route, likewise the CSX route from CHI-Louisville-Nashville-Atlanta-Waycross-JAX-TPA/MIA, or the former NS route CHI-Indianapolis-Cincinnati-Atlanta-Macon-JAX-TPA/MIA line.
Any overnight train running Jacksonville - Mobile is going to be a dog, these little towns and their amazing supporters need to ask each other how many want to leave for Orlando, JAX, New Orleans etc at 2 am? How about 4:15 am? How many are really going to ORL or NORL or JAX? How many really need to get to Pensacola, Mobile, Tallahassee or Marianna? PLAN AROUND THAT. Bottom line you've got a small population base stretched along 600+ miles of slow/rough track coming through in the  middle of the night. Am I the only one that has a problem with this?

Finally AAF? Absolutely, AAF is the possibility that could salvage this proposal provided some major work goes into the mainline west of town to get those speeds up to 79-90 mph. Send it south along the FEC RY as an Amtrak train either direct to Orlando from JAX or to Miami with a connection to Orlando.

My best scenario would be:

A day time train, typically 2 coaches, one sleeping car each off of the Sunset and City of New Orleans, a cafe/lounge car. Leaving both terminals in the 8:00 am hour, arriving JAX and NORL in the 10:00 pm hour. The 2 sleeping cars could be shifted to a Miami train on the AAF/Amtrak route.

REOPEN THE GRAND OLD TERMINAL as the JRTC, no extra whistles or bells needed. TIME TO PULL YOUR HEAD OUT JACKSONVILLE!

[Ocklawaha]