Visiting Jacksonville this weekend rant

[Overstreet]

Need to rethink that stereotype?

But then again I've been to both and likely won't go to either again.

[thelakelander]

Turning a downtown around isn't rocket science but the process to turn a place as dead as DT Jax into a 24/7 environment won't happen overnight either.  Just look at the items mentioned in your list.  How much money and time would you anticipate reopening streets to two-way traffic and working to restore easy passages between downtown, Springfield, Durkeeville, Brookly, and East Jacksonville?  This alone, could run you into the hundreds of millions (assuming you could fund locally 100%) and half of the most troubled streets Jax has no legal control over.  These two items (money and no control) alone, mean extra time will be needed to accomplish them.  Get all that done and you'll still need hundreds of millions for blocks of needed infill development (due to the demolitions over the last half century). DT has a bright future, but don't expect something with the vibrancy of San Francisco or even Uptown Charlotte (which isn't 24/7) happening any time soon. DT Jax is what it is. If you're bringing people into town for the weekend, be prepared to show them more than just DT.

[thelakelander]

I don't know what the Jags or a convention center have to do with getting funding and approval to change infrastructure the city has no control over. Different funding mechanisms and agencies. Anyway, infrastructure funding and design has become a major local priority in recent years. A prime complete streets example will begin construction in the next year or two, when FDOT starts construction on the Fuller Warren Bridge. Local residents and city officials were highly successful (between 2013 and 2014) working with FDOT to modify bridge expansion plans to include a $20 million bike/ped component between Riverside and San Marco.



http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-aug-revised-fuller-warren-bridge-plans-to-be-released-today

[thelakelander]

I'm actually one of a small group that was intimately involved kicking the Fuller Warren thing off......and complete streets . The ground swell of visible public support from multiple civic, advocacy and politicos came months after the initial efforts began. If you recall, the same pattern took place years ago with the elimination of JTA's plans to turn Adams Street into a bus only road.

Anyway, I didn't say anything about something being a game stopper. I just mentioned the game (DT revitalization) is a long one and anyone bringing visitors to Jax (at this point in time) should be prepared to explore areas outside of DT.

[CCMjax]

Jax needs more people living downtown more than it needs festivals and a cool new museum or something like that.  More permanent residents will allow places to be open later than 6 pm.  The Berkman II and Trio/Barnett are perfect opportunities to start.  Lake, you say this stuff doesn't happen over night . . . haven't most of the projects that are discussed on this board been in the works for the last 10 to 15 years?

[thelakelander]

^Like what? In our 10 years of operating this site some projects have been built and some have not. For every high profile project that's failed to materialize like the Landing, Trio or Shipyards debacles, we've quietly seen a Metropolitan Lofts, City Center, Brooklyn Riverside or Houston Street Manor spring up. We do have a few high profile projects/sites we need to take care of but it's still a process and the same process most cities have to go through. The Miamis, Savannahs and Charlottes we see and are jealous of today are all more than 30 years into the revitalization process.  We've just got to strive to continue to move forward as opposed to taking 1 step forward and 2 steps back with our revitalization moves. More importantly, we have to make sure our improvements are clustered in a pedestrian scale setting. This has probably been our largest setback with downtown revitalization over the last few decades.

[ProjectMaximus]

More importantly, we have to make sure our improvements are clustered in a pedestrian scale setting. This has probably been our largest setback with downtown revitalization over the last few decades.

Sounds like something we could learn about from a walking tour of Baltimore!! 

[thelakelander]

Yes it is. A place that has made eerily similar investments as Jax over the last three decades. However, the clustering of investments has led to a dramatically different outcome.

[CCMjax]

^Like what? In our 10 years of operating this site some projects have been built and some have not. For every high profile project that's failed to materialize like the Landing, Trio or Shipyards debacles, we've quietly seen a Metropolitan Lofts, City Center, Brooklyn Riverside or Houston Street Manor spring up. We do have a few high profile projects/sites we need to take care of but it's still a process and the same process most cities have to go through. The Miamis, Savannahs and Charlottes we see and are jealous of today are all more than 30 years into the revitalization process.  We've just got to strive to continue to move forward as opposed to taking 1 step forward and 2 steps back with our revitalization moves. More importantly, we have to make sure our improvements are clustered in a pedestrian scale setting. This has probably been our largest setback with downtown revitalization over the last few decades.

The two that I believe should have already broken ground by now are the Trio/Barnett and East San Marco.  I think those are marquee projects for their respective locations and will lead to a boost in activity.  SM already has activity but it will bring more young people from the Southside and will likely lead to more infill to the east on Atlantic that is currently kind of sketchy.  Not downtown but will add to the buzz of the core.  Same with infill along Main Street in Springfield.  We all know how important the Trio/Barnett project is.  I would also like to see the Emerald Necklace take shape with riverfront greenspace along the north bank.  Having a beautiful and connected park system would add more incentive for active people to move downtown. 

[thelakelander]

The two that I believe should have already broken ground by now are the Trio/Barnett and East San Marco.  I think those are marquee projects for their respective locations and will lead to a boost in activity.

The problem is that they are also two of the most difficult to pull off from a private sector financing standpoint. The land cost and design are probably two of the biggest items that led to Brooklyn Riverside/Shoppes of Brooklyn materializing relatively quickly and East San Marco not. Same goes for the Trio, when compared to a privately funded retrofit of an older building like the Metropolitan Lofts. Trio needs a ton of public incentives, while an improving market and success at 220 Riverside/Brooklyn Riverside should help East San Marco eventually happen.

[FlaBoy]

Riverside, Avondale, and San Marco are where most of the urban growth/infill is still occurring. That is also where I take people from out of town and most are pretty impressed by the vibe. Brooklyn is the beginning of the overflow of that.

[simms3]

I wouldn't even attempt to show people downtown.  The pace of life in Jax is so slowwwwwwww - I think it plays very well into a few laid back days at the beach.  I honestly have no faith that downtown Jax will ever be a place that is interesting.

And if we have to pay another f*****g group of highly paid people/executives to go walk around another city just to see some goddamn common sense, the same common sense they can see on their own goddamn time when they go to said city anyway for business (or one that's similar), I'm not going to do anything because I can't.  But I will bitch about that insanely stupid strategy (one that's resulted in more than a few hefty bills, probably racked up a few steep bar tabs, may have resulted in some copulation by those who cared to try, and yielded jack shit for the taxpayers and people of Jacksonville).

[Noone]

 

More importantly, we have to make sure our improvements are clustered in a pedestrian scale setting. This has probably been our largest setback with downtown revitalization over the last few decades.

Sounds like something we could learn about from a walking tour of Baltimore!! 

Can't say that about the Waterway!!   

[thelakelander]

I wouldn't even attempt to show people downtown.  The pace of life in Jax is so slowwwwwwww - I think it plays very well into a few laid back days at the beach.  I honestly have no faith that downtown Jax will ever be a place that is interesting.

From my view, the core is already interesting. However, I find most cities interesting regardless of the level of vibrancy. Anyway, I also typically avoid downtown unless there's something going on that crowds the streets.  Depending on where the visitors come from and expect, it can get embarrassing and depressing on dead days. Having St. Augustine a short distance away is always a good fallback option for those times. For the planners and historians that I take on tours, we generally see the good, bad and ugly of the entire urban core. So, not only are we checking out downtown, we're also visiting everything from Riverside and Springfield to Durkeeville, San Marco and Talleyrand. Different strokes for different folks.

And if we have to pay another f*****g group of highly paid people/executives to go walk around another city just to see some goddamn common sense, the same common sense they can see on their own goddamn time when they go to said city anyway for business (or one that's similar), I'm not going to do anything because I can't.  But I will bitch about that insanely stupid strategy (one that's resulted in more than a few hefty bills, probably racked up a few steep bar tabs, may have resulted in some copulation by those who cared to try, and yielded jack shit for the taxpayers and people of Jacksonville).

ProjectMaximus was talking about this trip being proposed by forum members: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,25769.msg432317.html#msg432317

Nobody being paid. Just a group of forum members interested in visiting a city together that has had some recent success in revitalizing its core.

[simms3]

^^^Ah, gotcha, so not one of those other trips that the City and/or various business interests have taken on behalf of the city.