90 Million more to be spent on Everbank Stadium?

[Tacachale]

Some of the regulars on this board . . . I mean, damn. Like CG7, it's hard to see this as something other than a win-win. And, it solves the Metropolitan Park problem.

Believe it or not, this project seriously helps the urban core -- it's going to bring some real life to downtown on a much more regular basis. The practice facility is going to have utility far beyond a practice space for the Jags.

Take a step back; give the bitching and moaning a break.

Then why don't you and your Jaguar-loving buddies pay for the fucking thing and not saddle everyone else with the bill.

See, this exact argument is made against all forms of cultural spending. Generally, the amount particular individuals pay isn't a whole lot.

You're right. But in this case, we're talking about using the public purse to finance a very profitable business owned by a billionaire. We're not talking about schools, roads, libraries, museums or trains.

Maybe the individual cost isn't very high, but the principle of the matter is what is at stake. Especially when we are having problems funding those other, far more important, things.

Except that the bed tax can not be used for any of those things you mentioned.

Of course. But as I said, it's the principle of the matter. We can "find" public money to pay a billionaire's expenses but can't seem to find ways to finance things that are actually important.

That's a separate issue, really. Financial mismanagement and anti-tax posturing is what has usually kept us from being able to afford the "important" things recently. But we can have both necessities and quality of life, it's not necessarily a zero sum game.

I don't think it's a zero-sum game. That actually might be an example of a straw man. I never said we can't have both necessities and quality of life. I just think we should be using public money to prop up private enterprise in this sort of way.

Then again I ask, leaving Khan and the stadium itself aside, would $45 million be a bad price for an amphitheater and multi-use indoor field? I would say no. As I said somewhere else, after a few years of steady events those kinds of amenities (like the Arena, Baseball Grounds or the St. Augustine Amphitheater) recover their cost, or most of it, not to mention the quality of life boost.

[Downtown Osprey]

Some of the regulars on this board . . . I mean, damn. Like CG7, it's hard to see this as something other than a win-win. And, it solves the Metropolitan Park problem.

Believe it or not, this project seriously helps the urban core -- it's going to bring some real life to downtown on a much more regular basis. The practice facility is going to have utility far beyond a practice space for the Jags.

Take a step back; give the bitching and moaning a break.

Then why don't you and your Jaguar-loving buddies pay for the fucking thing and not saddle everyone else with the bill.

See, this exact argument is made against all forms of cultural spending. Generally, the amount particular individuals pay isn't a whole lot.

You're right. But in this case, we're talking about using the public purse to finance a very profitable business owned by a billionaire. We're not talking about schools, roads, libraries, museums or trains.

Maybe the individual cost isn't very high, but the principle of the matter is what is at stake. Especially when we are having problems funding those other, far more important, things.

As far as that goes, this doesn't appear to be another expense just for the stadium (like big scoreboards) Leaving the actual stadium improvements aside, is $45 million an imprudent cost for a badly needed concert amphitheater and a multi-use indoor field? An amphitheater of that size could cost that much just by itself, and it's something we've been missing for 20 years. Whether rich guys stand to benefit or not, amenities like those are important.

I guess I don't agree that those amenities are important. A lot of that stuff is just going to sit empty and underused when said billionaire decides to relocate his team in a few years' time.

1) The team is not moving, so get that out of your head.
2) The whole point of the project is to improve the game day experience and the sports district as a whole.

[Adam White]

Then again I ask, leaving Khan and the stadium itself aside, would $45 million be a bad price for an amphitheater and multi-use indoor field? I would say no. As I said somewhere else, after a few years of steady events those kinds of amenities (like the Arena, Baseball Grounds or the St. Augustine Amphitheater) recover their cost, or most of it, not to mention the quality of life boost.

And that's fair enough. I'm not saying you're wrong - I'm saying I am not of the same mind.

[Adam White]

1) The team is not moving, so get that out of your head.
2) The whole point of the project is to improve the game day experience and the sports district as a whole.

1) I'm glad you are so confident of that.
2) I don't give a crap about "improving the game day experience and the 'sports district' as a whole". Or more accurately - feel free to improve it, just don't use public money to make your already ridiculously profitable private enterprise even more profitable.

[dp8541]

The city was quick to jump on this for two reasons - one to appease the Jags, and two to help improve our chances to land a college football playoff game in the future. 

[jaxjags]

Let's see now:
1. An a 16,000 seat arena
2. A 10,000 baseball/soccer stadium
3. A 65,000 + seat football stadium
4. A 10,000 seat amphitheater
5. An indoor multi-use facility.

Sounds more like an entertainment district, You don't think Intuition and the other Bay Street venues won't benefit from this. This is a faster approach to improving the area without touching the Ship Yards which will take some time.

[edjax]

So what are the parameters of Capital improvements in Jacksonville and what qualifies?   You may be surprised.  Certainly there are some important and necessary items on this list.  For all the information, click the link at the bottom of this post. 

Again, what is the best use of this funding?  Money to parks has been cut over the years, many facilities are lacking.  Drainage issues in our poorest neighborhoods still have not been resolved along with flooding issues throughout Jacksonville. Public Safety structure.  Has anyone been inside the Police Memorial building lately. How about the jail where sewage regularly backs up into the courtrooms and low lying areas? The main JSO hub downtown is well beyond it's life span with some areas that are absolutely run down. Road, Infrastructure, transportation  etc.  Hello Jacksonville what are our need as opposed to wants?  We need to make better decisions for the health of this city.

Identifying Projects
Departments complete a CIP request form with information above and use a standardized matrix to score projects prior to submitting them to the Finance Department. To assist in balancing and prioritizing needs across the City, departments further identify projects by one of the following 'Program Areas'

Drainage - Project that improves drainage conditions and reduces flooding.
Environment/Quality of Life - Project that would promote or improve the environment for the citizens of Jacksonville (e.g. water treatment plants).
Government Facilities – Project designated as government facilities with primarily employee occupancy.
Parks - Project with buildings, grounds and/or recreational facilities within the park boundaries, also including the Preservation Project.
Public Facilities – Project for facilities designated for primarily citizen use and include facilities such as the county courthouse, arena, and baseball park.
Public Safety - Project relating to public safety including facilities.
Roads/Infrastructure/Transportation – Project dedicated to expanding and widening roads; interchanges, overpasses and intersection improvements; and also includes: Road resurfacing,
Sidewalks/bike paths, along with landscaping/tree planting along road improvement projects.
Targeted Economic Development – Project is used to stimulate growth and revitalization by providing grants and loans for infrastructure, public improvements, and project development.

http://www.coj.net/departments/finance/budget/capital-improvement-plans.aspx

Which items on this list can the bed tax legally be used on?

Direct from COJ.net:

"Jacksonville currently levies a six percent tourist development tax on transient accommodations in the city. In addition to its many other duties, The Tourist Development Council (TDC) utilizes a portion of this tax to fund tourism promotions and events that will generate a substantial number of visitors to Jacksonville, the Beaches and Baldwin. In doing so, the TDC has a unique opportunity to impact tourism by offering grants for those applicants that are planning a convention, special event or conference in the Jacksonville area.
The TDC reviews competitive applications and allocates funding to help pay for the operational and advertising expenses of festivals, sporting events, conferences and the like, all of which have the potential of attracting substantial numbers of visitors who will book hotel rooms, eat in area restaurants, visit attractions and shop in the city while attending the supported event."
http://www.coj.net/city-council/tourist-development-council.aspx

To answer your question: basically only public facilities. It is possible something else could use the money from one of those categories, but most of them don't really draw the tourism that the tax is meant for.

Yea, I knew the answer. Just asked as I found it kind of odd that it was posted since it had really nothing to do with the issue.  Agenda pushing.

[Downtown Osprey]

Let's see now:
1. An a 16,000 seat arena
2. A 10,000 baseball/soccer stadium
3. A 65,000 + seat football stadium
4. A 10,000 seat amphitheater
5. An indoor multi-use facility.

Sounds more like an entertainment district, You don't think Intuition and the other Bay Street venues won't benefit from this. This is a faster approach to improving the area without touching the Ship Yards which will take some time.

Precisely. And I'm very confident because it's the truth. Tell me where you get your information about the team moving. I'm dying to know. 

[Cheshire Cat]

So what are the parameters of Capital improvements in Jacksonville and what qualifies?   You may be surprised.  Certainly there are some important and necessary items on this list.  For all the information, click the link at the bottom of this post. 

Again, what is the best use of this funding?  Money to parks has been cut over the years, many facilities are lacking.  Drainage issues in our poorest neighborhoods still have not been resolved along with flooding issues throughout Jacksonville. Public Safety structure.  Has anyone been inside the Police Memorial building lately. How about the jail where sewage regularly backs up into the courtrooms and low lying areas? The main JSO hub downtown is well beyond it's life span with some areas that are absolutely run down. Road, Infrastructure, transportation  etc.  Hello Jacksonville what are our need as opposed to wants?  We need to make better decisions for the health of this city.

Identifying Projects
Departments complete a CIP request form with information above and use a standardized matrix to score projects prior to submitting them to the Finance Department. To assist in balancing and prioritizing needs across the City, departments further identify projects by one of the following 'Program Areas'

Drainage - Project that improves drainage conditions and reduces flooding.
Environment/Quality of Life - Project that would promote or improve the environment for the citizens of Jacksonville (e.g. water treatment plants).
Government Facilities – Project designated as government facilities with primarily employee occupancy.
Parks - Project with buildings, grounds and/or recreational facilities within the park boundaries, also including the Preservation Project.
Public Facilities – Project for facilities designated for primarily citizen use and include facilities such as the county courthouse, arena, and baseball park.
Public Safety - Project relating to public safety including facilities.
Roads/Infrastructure/Transportation – Project dedicated to expanding and widening roads; interchanges, overpasses and intersection improvements; and also includes: Road resurfacing,
Sidewalks/bike paths, along with landscaping/tree planting along road improvement projects.
Targeted Economic Development – Project is used to stimulate growth and revitalization by providing grants and loans for infrastructure, public improvements, and project development.

http://www.coj.net/departments/finance/budget/capital-improvement-plans.aspx

Which items on this list can the bed tax legally be used on?

Direct from COJ.net:

"Jacksonville currently levies a six percent tourist development tax on transient accommodations in the city. In addition to its many other duties, The Tourist Development Council (TDC) utilizes a portion of this tax to fund tourism promotions and events that will generate a substantial number of visitors to Jacksonville, the Beaches and Baldwin. In doing so, the TDC has a unique opportunity to impact tourism by offering grants for those applicants that are planning a convention, special event or conference in the Jacksonville area.
The TDC reviews competitive applications and allocates funding to help pay for the operational and advertising expenses of festivals, sporting events, conferences and the like, all of which have the potential of attracting substantial numbers of visitors who will book hotel rooms, eat in area restaurants, visit attractions and shop in the city while attending the supported event."
http://www.coj.net/city-council/tourist-development-council.aspx

To answer your question: basically only public facilities. It is possible something else could use the money from one of those categories, but most of them don't really draw the tourism that the tax is meant for.

Reading comprehension 101, "the TDC utilizes a portion of the bed tax".  A portion does not translate to all.

[Tacachale]

So what are the parameters of Capital improvements in Jacksonville and what qualifies?   You may be surprised.  Certainly there are some important and necessary items on this list.  For all the information, click the link at the bottom of this post. 

Again, what is the best use of this funding?  Money to parks has been cut over the years, many facilities are lacking.  Drainage issues in our poorest neighborhoods still have not been resolved along with flooding issues throughout Jacksonville. Public Safety structure.  Has anyone been inside the Police Memorial building lately. How about the jail where sewage regularly backs up into the courtrooms and low lying areas? The main JSO hub downtown is well beyond it's life span with some areas that are absolutely run down. Road, Infrastructure, transportation  etc.  Hello Jacksonville what are our need as opposed to wants?  We need to make better decisions for the health of this city.

Identifying Projects
Departments complete a CIP request form with information above and use a standardized matrix to score projects prior to submitting them to the Finance Department. To assist in balancing and prioritizing needs across the City, departments further identify projects by one of the following 'Program Areas'

Drainage - Project that improves drainage conditions and reduces flooding.
Environment/Quality of Life - Project that would promote or improve the environment for the citizens of Jacksonville (e.g. water treatment plants).
Government Facilities – Project designated as government facilities with primarily employee occupancy.
Parks - Project with buildings, grounds and/or recreational facilities within the park boundaries, also including the Preservation Project.
Public Facilities – Project for facilities designated for primarily citizen use and include facilities such as the county courthouse, arena, and baseball park.
Public Safety - Project relating to public safety including facilities.
Roads/Infrastructure/Transportation – Project dedicated to expanding and widening roads; interchanges, overpasses and intersection improvements; and also includes: Road resurfacing,
Sidewalks/bike paths, along with landscaping/tree planting along road improvement projects.
Targeted Economic Development – Project is used to stimulate growth and revitalization by providing grants and loans for infrastructure, public improvements, and project development.

http://www.coj.net/departments/finance/budget/capital-improvement-plans.aspx

Which items on this list can the bed tax legally be used on?

Direct from COJ.net:

"Jacksonville currently levies a six percent tourist development tax on transient accommodations in the city. In addition to its many other duties, The Tourist Development Council (TDC) utilizes a portion of this tax to fund tourism promotions and events that will generate a substantial number of visitors to Jacksonville, the Beaches and Baldwin. In doing so, the TDC has a unique opportunity to impact tourism by offering grants for those applicants that are planning a convention, special event or conference in the Jacksonville area.
The TDC reviews competitive applications and allocates funding to help pay for the operational and advertising expenses of festivals, sporting events, conferences and the like, all of which have the potential of attracting substantial numbers of visitors who will book hotel rooms, eat in area restaurants, visit attractions and shop in the city while attending the supported event."
http://www.coj.net/city-council/tourist-development-council.aspx

To answer your question: basically only public facilities. It is possible something else could use the money from one of those categories, but most of them don't really draw the tourism that the tax is meant for.

Reading comprehension 101, the TDC utilizes a portion of the bed tax.  A portion does not translate to all.

To answer your question: basically only public facilities. It is possible something else could use the money from one of those categories, but most of them don't really draw the tourism that the tax is meant for.

Correct. None of the bed tax can be spent in that way. In fact, right now, the money that's presumably being tapped for this project is tied specifically to the sports district. Of the bed tax, 2% is dedicated to debt service to pay down past projects, and another 2% is committed to tourism promotion for the county as a whole. In 2009, the final 2% was committed to projects within the sports district, so barring a change in the law it's going to go either to the existing facilities or new ones built in the area.

[Cheshire Cat]

So what are the parameters of Capital improvements in Jacksonville and what qualifies?   You may be surprised.  Certainly there are some important and necessary items on this list.  For all the information, click the link at the bottom of this post. 

Again, what is the best use of this funding?  Money to parks has been cut over the years, many facilities are lacking.  Drainage issues in our poorest neighborhoods still have not been resolved along with flooding issues throughout Jacksonville. Public Safety structure.  Has anyone been inside the Police Memorial building lately. How about the jail where sewage regularly backs up into the courtrooms and low lying areas? The main JSO hub downtown is well beyond it's life span with some areas that are absolutely run down. Road, Infrastructure, transportation  etc.  Hello Jacksonville what are our need as opposed to wants?  We need to make better decisions for the health of this city.

Identifying Projects
Departments complete a CIP request form with information above and use a standardized matrix to score projects prior to submitting them to the Finance Department. To assist in balancing and prioritizing needs across the City, departments further identify projects by one of the following 'Program Areas'

Drainage - Project that improves drainage conditions and reduces flooding.
Environment/Quality of Life - Project that would promote or improve the environment for the citizens of Jacksonville (e.g. water treatment plants).
Government Facilities – Project designated as government facilities with primarily employee occupancy.
Parks - Project with buildings, grounds and/or recreational facilities within the park boundaries, also including the Preservation Project.
Public Facilities – Project for facilities designated for primarily citizen use and include facilities such as the county courthouse, arena, and baseball park.
Public Safety - Project relating to public safety including facilities.
Roads/Infrastructure/Transportation – Project dedicated to expanding and widening roads; interchanges, overpasses and intersection improvements; and also includes: Road resurfacing,
Sidewalks/bike paths, along with landscaping/tree planting along road improvement projects.
Targeted Economic Development – Project is used to stimulate growth and revitalization by providing grants and loans for infrastructure, public improvements, and project development.

http://www.coj.net/departments/finance/budget/capital-improvement-plans.aspx

Which items on this list can the bed tax legally be used on?

Direct from COJ.net:

"Jacksonville currently levies a six percent tourist development tax on transient accommodations in the city. In addition to its many other duties, The Tourist Development Council (TDC) utilizes a portion of this tax to fund tourism promotions and events that will generate a substantial number of visitors to Jacksonville, the Beaches and Baldwin. In doing so, the TDC has a unique opportunity to impact tourism by offering grants for those applicants that are planning a convention, special event or conference in the Jacksonville area.
The TDC reviews competitive applications and allocates funding to help pay for the operational and advertising expenses of festivals, sporting events, conferences and the like, all of which have the potential of attracting substantial numbers of visitors who will book hotel rooms, eat in area restaurants, visit attractions and shop in the city while attending the supported event."
http://www.coj.net/city-council/tourist-development-council.aspx

To answer your question: basically only public facilities. It is possible something else could use the money from one of those categories, but most of them don't really draw the tourism that the tax is meant for.

Yea, I knew the answer. Just asked as I found it kind of odd that it was posted since it had really nothing to do with the issue.  Agenda pushing.

A portion of the bed tax is used for these items,  there is no designation that it "all" must be used for these items.  Secondly using the city's own criterion and web site that addresses "Capital Improvements" is not agenda pushing, it is sharing facts.  Attempting to dismiss facts as agenda pushing is a weak attack on valid information and the person providing it.  These are COJ facts and if those represent an agenda, that agenda is clearly that of the COJ.  Honestly Ed!  Here is what you and others are missing when it comes to what the city can do which is this, they can choose to interpret the uses of the funds in a much more broad fashion than anyone can imagine in order to suit a specific agenda.  That is a fact and it happens all the time with legislation and deal making.  Wake up kids.

[Tacachale]

So what are the parameters of Capital improvements in Jacksonville and what qualifies?   You may be surprised.  Certainly there are some important and necessary items on this list.  For all the information, click the link at the bottom of this post. 

Again, what is the best use of this funding?  Money to parks has been cut over the years, many facilities are lacking.  Drainage issues in our poorest neighborhoods still have not been resolved along with flooding issues throughout Jacksonville. Public Safety structure.  Has anyone been inside the Police Memorial building lately. How about the jail where sewage regularly backs up into the courtrooms and low lying areas? The main JSO hub downtown is well beyond it's life span with some areas that are absolutely run down. Road, Infrastructure, transportation  etc.  Hello Jacksonville what are our need as opposed to wants?  We need to make better decisions for the health of this city.

Identifying Projects
Departments complete a CIP request form with information above and use a standardized matrix to score projects prior to submitting them to the Finance Department. To assist in balancing and prioritizing needs across the City, departments further identify projects by one of the following 'Program Areas'

Drainage - Project that improves drainage conditions and reduces flooding.
Environment/Quality of Life - Project that would promote or improve the environment for the citizens of Jacksonville (e.g. water treatment plants).
Government Facilities – Project designated as government facilities with primarily employee occupancy.
Parks - Project with buildings, grounds and/or recreational facilities within the park boundaries, also including the Preservation Project.
Public Facilities – Project for facilities designated for primarily citizen use and include facilities such as the county courthouse, arena, and baseball park.
Public Safety - Project relating to public safety including facilities.
Roads/Infrastructure/Transportation – Project dedicated to expanding and widening roads; interchanges, overpasses and intersection improvements; and also includes: Road resurfacing,
Sidewalks/bike paths, along with landscaping/tree planting along road improvement projects.
Targeted Economic Development – Project is used to stimulate growth and revitalization by providing grants and loans for infrastructure, public improvements, and project development.

http://www.coj.net/departments/finance/budget/capital-improvement-plans.aspx

Which items on this list can the bed tax legally be used on?

Direct from COJ.net:

"Jacksonville currently levies a six percent tourist development tax on transient accommodations in the city. In addition to its many other duties, The Tourist Development Council (TDC) utilizes a portion of this tax to fund tourism promotions and events that will generate a substantial number of visitors to Jacksonville, the Beaches and Baldwin. In doing so, the TDC has a unique opportunity to impact tourism by offering grants for those applicants that are planning a convention, special event or conference in the Jacksonville area.
The TDC reviews competitive applications and allocates funding to help pay for the operational and advertising expenses of festivals, sporting events, conferences and the like, all of which have the potential of attracting substantial numbers of visitors who will book hotel rooms, eat in area restaurants, visit attractions and shop in the city while attending the supported event."
http://www.coj.net/city-council/tourist-development-council.aspx

To answer your question: basically only public facilities. It is possible something else could use the money from one of those categories, but most of them don't really draw the tourism that the tax is meant for.

Yea, I knew the answer. Just asked as I found it kind of odd that it was posted since it had really nothing to do with the issue.  Agenda pushing.

A portion of the bed tax is used for these items,  there is no designation that it "all" must be used for these items.  Secondly using the city's own criterion and web site that addresses "Capital Improvements" is not agenda pushing, it is sharing facts.  Attempting to dismiss facts as agenda pushing is a weak attack on valid information and the person providing it.  These are COJ facts and if those represent and agenda, that agenda is clearly that of the COJ.  Honestly Ed!

As I just said for the second time,

None of the bed tax can be spent in that way. In fact, right now, the money that's presumably being tapped for this project is tied specifically to the sports district. Of the bed tax, 2% is dedicated to debt service to pay down past projects, and another 2% is committed to tourism promotion for the county as a whole. In 2009, the final 2% was committed to projects within the sports district, so barring a change in the law it's going to go either to the existing facilities or new ones built in the area.

[tufsu1]

am I the only one who has a hard time seeing 5,000 fixed seats and room for another 5,000 on the berm/lawn in these sketches of the amphitheater?

[RattlerGator]

Come on, tufsu1 -- they aren't going to be slaves to this visual rendition. The finished product *is* going to deliver that.

Cheshire Cat:

Here is what you and others are missing when it comes to what the city can do which is this, they can choose to interpret the uses of the funds in a much more broad fashion than anyone can imagine in order to suit a specific agenda.  That is a fact and it happens all the time with legislation and deal making.  Wake up kids.

Honestly, who in the heck doesn't already know this? So, how is it being missed? Public servants have made a determination this is a damn good project for the city and will have a chance to explain this in City Council before a December vote.

Why in the hell are y'all freaking out? Especially over something that appears to be a damn good project? That *is* going to be vetted ? ? ?

[Cheshire Cat]

Come on, tufsu1 -- they aren't going to be slaves to this visual rendition. The finished product *is* going to deliver that.

Cheshire Cat:

Here is what you and others are missing when it comes to what the city can do which is this, they can choose to interpret the uses of the funds in a much more broad fashion than anyone can imagine in order to suit a specific agenda.  That is a fact and it happens all the time with legislation and deal making.  Wake up kids.

Honestly, who in the heck doesn't already know this? So, how is it being missed? Public servants have made a determination this is a damn good project for the city and will have a chance to explain this in City Council before a December vote.

Why in the hell are y'all freaking out? Especially over something that appears to be a damn good project? That *is* going to be vetted ? ? ?

No one is freaking out.  Discussion and vetting of facts is not freaking out.  Dramatic words do not change the facts or mitigate truth.  To your comment that "public servant's" have made the decision and it should be a go from there, clearly you have not followed history or current event's.  lol  Those public servants are put into office by the people, they answer to us.  Not to question what is done with our tax dollars when it accounts for $45 million in spending is simply ignorant.  The voters did not intend to hand politicians an open checkbook with us paying the bills.