Ikea coming to Jacksonville

[FSBA]

Why would IKEA be so willing to include Volusia County in Jacksonville's market? With them being in the Orlando market for so long I would figure most IKEA shoppers would stick with Orlando.

[JaxAvondale]

Why would IKEA be so willing to include Volusia County in Jacksonville's market? With them being in the Orlando market for so long I would figure most IKEA shoppers would stick with Orlando.

I-4 and Orlando traffic. I have had co-workers commute to Jax for work that lived in Volusia county over the last few years. In fact, the company has an office in Orlando and they preferred driving to Jax.

[thelakelander]

Yeah. I-95 is a breeze compared with I-4, especially south of DT Orlando. Also, much of the Daytona market's growth is happening in Ormond Beach and Palm Coast. The actual City of Daytona Beach has been stagnant, in terms of population growth, for years.

[RattlerGator]

I loved this earlier comment in the thread from March 11, 2014:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,16025.msg368290.html#msg368290

It's not just market size, either.  As has been touched on, it's tourism, it's disposable income, it's how disposable income is spent (some cities are just more fashion or design conscious than others while other cities are budget conscious no matter how much disposable income there is), it's trade area and local/regional competition, it's site selection if all of the other boxes are checked.

Honestly, if Jax were 2.5 million people in its MSA, maybe there just isn't a proper site for IKEA to settle on!  So many factors at play.

I think generally speaking, Jax is a small MSA that is too close to too many larger MSAs, and there isn't a lot of tourist or business/convention traffic, no sizable student population, and too much housing-backed wealth, which is shaky in NE FL (there isn't a lot of highly liquid wealth in the area, which is why there isn't much in terms of high end shopping, restaurants, or amenities).  The wealthy that do call Jax home have no problem traveling up to NYC or down to Miami for various things, and the lower/middle class aren't likely as great of target profile demographics for IKEA (there is a noticeable difference in the average Jax resident and the average middle/lower middle income resident of other metros, for instance).

Jax will get a Crate & Barrel before Ikea, but is still 5-10 years out from that.  Crate & Barrel is probably taking note of Nordstrom going in at SJTC, and they probably like the demographics and cotenancy there.  IKEA could give a shit about all that and wants space, high visibility, high centrality, and extremely good access with room to put in structured parking and easy access to all residents in a region.  JTB may not be the best corridor for them, but then where else do they go?  Where along 95?  Perhaps that site at University where the motel was demo'd?  Maybe not large enough and a reputable developer would need to come in and back the transformation of that intersection.

The Nostradamus of Negativity scores again. Five to ten years out from an event that necessarily would occur *BEFORE* an IKEA arrives perhaps five to ten years later still.

[KenFSU]

Okay I'm late to the party, IKEA will be out SJTC. People think that it's bad now, traffic is gonna be crazy out there.

They are back to harvesting the remaining trees on the Skinner properties at SJTC again. The agent and developer have put up new signs. With Top Golf signed up and Red Robin on the way and Books A Million right behind them, now Ikea, it is going to be crazy come Christmas in 2017.

The "success" of SJTC may be their undoing in the future.

The existing success of the "SJTC area" and subsequent explosive growth of this part of town is unquestionable at this point. Yes, we're talking about a lot of chain stores, but destination retail and attractions like Ikea, Top Golf, the SJTC, and countless other nearby clusters of activity bring Jacksonville in line amenity-wise with the larger cities, and make Jacksonville a more exciting place to visit and to live. I'd hope that by this point the last remaining holdouts would drop the sour-grapes "strip mall" attitude and recognize how awesome it is to have an area like this in our city, even if it isn't downtown. In the long-run, downtown will benefit from the positive externalities created by this explosive growth on the south side.

My question, as Ock alluded to before, and as I've raised in other threads is this: How do we define and connect the "St. Johns Town Center area." In a relatively small space, we've got all of these awesome areas like Tinseltown, Tapestry Park, Gate Parkway, IKEA/Top Golf, the St. Johns Town Center, Markets at Town Center, UNF, Deerwood Park, and the countless other developments springing up in the area. Yet, despite their geographic proximity, they all feel like disparate places, rather than a unified area. Working together, the whole area has so much more potential than the sum of its individual parts and developments.

There's got to be an elegant way to interconnect all of these parts, both through branding (still love the idea of establishing the area as Midtown Jacksonville) and through transportation (shuttles, bike paths, pedestrian walkways, etc.). So that a UNF student could easily get to IKEA. A SJTC shopper could easily catch a movie at Tinseltown or grab a post-shopping drink at World of Beer. An Aloft guest could step outside, catch a ride of some sort, and enjoy an afternoon at Top Golf. A Deerwood Park worker could step aboard something and grab a drink at Suite after work, or relax at Barnes N' Noble, or Moxy, or the Nordstrom ebar. A Tapestry Park resident could attend classes at UNF without a vehicle, etc.

[peestandingup]

I loved this earlier comment in the thread from March 11, 2014:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,16025.msg368290.html#msg368290

It's not just market size, either.  As has been touched on, it's tourism, it's disposable income, it's how disposable income is spent (some cities are just more fashion or design conscious than others while other cities are budget conscious no matter how much disposable income there is), it's trade area and local/regional competition, it's site selection if all of the other boxes are checked.

Honestly, if Jax were 2.5 million people in its MSA, maybe there just isn't a proper site for IKEA to settle on!  So many factors at play.

I think generally speaking, Jax is a small MSA that is too close to too many larger MSAs, and there isn't a lot of tourist or business/convention traffic, no sizable student population, and too much housing-backed wealth, which is shaky in NE FL (there isn't a lot of highly liquid wealth in the area, which is why there isn't much in terms of high end shopping, restaurants, or amenities).  The wealthy that do call Jax home have no problem traveling up to NYC or down to Miami for various things, and the lower/middle class aren't likely as great of target profile demographics for IKEA (there is a noticeable difference in the average Jax resident and the average middle/lower middle income resident of other metros, for instance).

Jax will get a Crate & Barrel before Ikea, but is still 5-10 years out from that.  Crate & Barrel is probably taking note of Nordstrom going in at SJTC, and they probably like the demographics and cotenancy there.  IKEA could give a shit about all that and wants space, high visibility, high centrality, and extremely good access with room to put in structured parking and easy access to all residents in a region.  JTB may not be the best corridor for them, but then where else do they go?  Where along 95?  Perhaps that site at University where the motel was demo'd?  Maybe not large enough and a reputable developer would need to come in and back the transformation of that intersection.

The Nostradamus of Negativity scores again. Five to ten years out from an event that necessarily would occur *BEFORE* an IKEA arrives perhaps five to ten years later still.

Simms, report directly to this thread for your lashings.

[simms3]

We can't be right all the time.

[thelakelander]

IKEA renderings:

[Downtown Osprey]

Okay I'm late to the party, IKEA will be out SJTC. People think that it's bad now, traffic is gonna be crazy out there.

They are back to harvesting the remaining trees on the Skinner properties at SJTC again. The agent and developer have put up new signs. With Top Golf signed up and Red Robin on the way and Books A Million right behind them, now Ikea, it is going to be crazy come Christmas in 2017.

The "success" of SJTC may be their undoing in the future.

The existing success of the "SJTC area" and subsequent explosive growth of this part of town is unquestionable at this point. Yes, we're talking about a lot of chain stores, but destination retail and attractions like Ikea, Top Golf, the SJTC, and countless other nearby clusters of activity bring Jacksonville in line amenity-wise with the larger cities, and make Jacksonville a more exciting place to visit and to live. I'd hope that by this point the last remaining holdouts would drop the sour-grapes "strip mall" attitude and recognize how awesome it is to have an area like this in our city, even if it isn't downtown. In the long-run, downtown will benefit from the positive externalities created by this explosive growth on the south side.

My question, as Ock alluded to before, and as I've raised in other threads is this: How do we define and connect the "St. Johns Town Center area." In a relatively small space, we've got all of these awesome areas like Tinseltown, Tapestry Park, Gate Parkway, IKEA/Top Golf, the St. Johns Town Center, Markets at Town Center, UNF, Deerwood Park, and the countless other developments springing up in the area. Yet, despite their geographic proximity, they all feel like disparate places, rather than a unified area. Working together, the whole area has so much more potential than the sum of its individual parts and developments.

There's got to be an elegant way to interconnect all of these parts, both through branding (still love the idea of establishing the area as Midtown Jacksonville) and through transportation (shuttles, bike paths, pedestrian walkways, etc.). So that a UNF student could easily get to IKEA. A SJTC shopper could easily catch a movie at Tinseltown or grab a post-shopping drink at World of Beer. An Aloft guest could step outside, catch a ride of some sort, and enjoy an afternoon at Top Golf. A Deerwood Park worker could step aboard something and grab a drink at Suite after work, or relax at Barnes N' Noble, or Moxy, or the Nordstrom ebar. A Tapestry Park resident could attend classes at UNF without a vehicle, etc.

+1. I guess I never put a lot of thought into that but it makes total sense to unify this entire area.

[finehoe]

I never put a lot of thought into that but it makes total sense to unify this entire area.

I'll bet our illustrious Planning and Development Department hasn't put much thought into it either.

[thelakelander]

My question, as Ock alluded to before, and as I've raised in other threads is this: How do we define and connect the "St. Johns Town Center area." In a relatively small space, we've got all of these awesome areas like Tinseltown, Tapestry Park, Gate Parkway, IKEA/Top Golf, the St. Johns Town Center, Markets at Town Center, UNF, Deerwood Park, and the countless other developments springing up in the area. Yet, despite their geographic proximity, they all feel like disparate places, rather than a unified area. Working together, the whole area has so much more potential than the sum of its individual parts and developments.

There's got to be an elegant way to interconnect all of these parts, both through branding (still love the idea of establishing the area as Midtown Jacksonville) and through transportation (shuttles, bike paths, pedestrian walkways, etc.). So that a UNF student could easily get to IKEA. A SJTC shopper could easily catch a movie at Tinseltown or grab a post-shopping drink at World of Beer. An Aloft guest could step outside, catch a ride of some sort, and enjoy an afternoon at Top Golf. A Deerwood Park worker could step aboard something and grab a drink at Suite after work, or relax at Barnes N' Noble, or Moxy, or the Nordstrom ebar. A Tapestry Park resident could attend classes at UNF without a vehicle, etc.

Well that particular suburban landscape is set up pretty nice for transit. Assuming JTB was utilized as a rapid transit corridor between the Beach and downtown (via Philips), you could use a combination of Gate Parkway, Town Center Parkway, Deerwood Park Boulevard, Belford Road and perhaps Kernan (assuming the once proposed southward extension to East Baymeadows/Gate happens) to run a local shuttle loop. Such a loop would tie in Southpoint, Tinseltown, SJTC, UNF, and all the office parks/multi-family developments inbetween together.



That particular loop could then connect to a couple of rapid transit stations along JTB for regional access. Gate Parkway, Town Center Parkway and Deerwood Park Boulevard could all be enhanced to be decent corridors for bike/ped connectivity. Overall, the entire area, like the rest of the city, would benefit from a zoning overhaul, making it easier for the private sector to develop multimodal friendly infill development. Also, the area is essentially an "Edge City". There's tons of them across the country. So there are some decent examples out there for Jax to follow, when it comes to retrofitting suburbia.

[fsujax]

I honestly do not understand the love affair with IKEA, but good for Jacksonville....this will also draw people from Tallahassee and all of SE GA maybe even Savannah and Charleston.

[CityLife]

^The love affair is because you can get decent looking furniture, kitchens, bathrooms, and general household goods for fairly cheap. Plus, their showroom is very useful in spurring design ideas (even if you don't buy IKEA products). The food is cheap, and for some people its a fun place to go hang out and explore on a rainy day, or when they are looking for something to do. One thing that hasn't really been mentioned (maybe its obvious, maybe not) is that having an IKEA in close proximity makes it a lot easier for developers/investors/designers to rehab homes or do loft conversions...or for restaurants/bars to affordably create an interesting space. There is no doubt in my mind that having an IKEA in Jax will create a lot more colorful and unique interior spaces around town.

I've had to go to Orlando for meetings periodically all summer and have stopped at IKEA each time to pick up stuff to do some interior design work in my home. For about $150, I was able to create a fairly nice mudroom in my house. I get to go in a lot of $million + homes and for $150 I built what those people likely paid $1k plus to build. My brother in law just did an awesome bathroom remodel with IKEA products for 1/10th of what my mom paid for hers, and his looks much better.

I certainly don't (and won't) buy all my furniture from IKEA, but it is a very, very nice option to have in town.

Oh and then there's the economic boost to the city, which will likely be well north of $1 million a year in sales tax revenue...This is a big deal for Jax.

[Ocklawaha]

Why would IKEA be so willing to include Volusia County in Jacksonville's market? With them being in the Orlando market for so long I would figure most IKEA shoppers would stick with Orlando.

FLORIDA EAST COAST RAILWAY...

AKA:

ALL ABOARD FLORIDA v I-4 = No Contest

[RattlerGator]

We can't be right all the time.

True dat. Glad to see you didn't freak out at the sight of my written jab.