The JTA Skyway: Keep it or dump it?

[spuwho]

https://www.youtube.com/v/IL_ztPckuYU

Video from 1992^

This video shows the original Matra based system.  Those cars were sold to O'Hare Airport for their new people mover. I recognize those cars from the umpteen times I had to ride it to reach remote parking and rental.

[exnewsman]

Funny video.......1992 looks just like 2015.......an empty mover connecting nothing to nowhere......except now in 2015 JAX has way more vacant overgrown lots in downtown.........ahhhhhh progress........

Clearly you don't ride the Skyway. You will rarely find an empty Skyway train these days.

[thelakelander]

Several sources (OK, Wikipedia) cite the High Line width as ranging between 30 and 50 feet, which is the same generally as the Skyway. A High Line would be transformative for downtown, who cares if it is derivative, it is a model worth copying. Make it an aerial artwalk & landscape it. Until I walked the High Line I had no idea how it would feel & plug into the city - it is a great feeling to hover mid-level like that.

Measuring from Google Earth, the Skyway is roughly 24' in width, including the open section between the tracks. Where the tracks split around each station, the width drops to less than 12'. Using the same measuring tool, the High Line is roughly 40' to +50' in width, with a few areas that are wider. A standard shared use path is 12' in width. Unless we're talking about widening the Skyway's elevated infrastructure and adding/integrating buildings with it, we won't end up with the linear park atmosphere of the High Line. We'd end up with an elevated version of the Northside's S-Line.

[spuwho]

I was very pleased to learn that we were getting on elevated transportation system in Jacksonville but I was disappointed that in reality it didn't go anywhere if we extend this out to the beaches and other parts of  Jacksonville I believe ridership will increase massively.

I asked my kids (20/22 years old) what they should do about the Skyway.

First response?

- Needs to go to the beach
- Needs to go to the stadium (especially for concerts)

They said they would use it more if it went to the beach. They love the beach, they hate the parking situation out there. 

[thelakelander]

As opposed to a High Line, steal a page out of Miami's book and go with an Under Line. You could probably do some pretty cool things with the streets and public right-of-way under the Skyway. See the images below:







All this to say....we'd be dusting off old visions and plans never implemented...



It could be a pretty popular place, given our climate and the potential ability to fully integrate such a space with retail shops, sidewalk cafes, destinations like Sweet Pete's, beer gardens, etc. It could also tie in with a complete streets retrofit of Park Street, effectively creating a pedestrian/bike/transit corridor through downtown and into Brooklyn and Riverside. Some renderings of the Under Line below:

[exnewsman]

I like that idea Lake. Nice job!

[Sonic101]

I was very pleased to learn that we were getting on elevated transportation system in Jacksonville but I was disappointed that in reality it didn't go anywhere if we extend this out to the beaches and other parts of  Jacksonville I believe ridership will increase massively.

I asked my kids (20/22 years old) what they should do about the Skyway.

First response?

- Needs to go to the beach
- Needs to go to the stadium (especially for concerts)

They said they would use it more if it went to the beach. They love the beach, they hate the parking situation out there.

I would be first in line if it went to the beach, especially via UNF!

[coredumped]

Someone more knowledgeable than me (Ock or Lake would probably know best) but I don't think a monorail is fit for that type of distance. The top speed of the Skyway would also make it a long ride.

[thelakelander]

The Skyway wasn't meant to be a system that can travel great distances.  All it is, is a small downtown circulator in its current state. Utilizing it for anything that will reach UNF or the beach will require the retrofit of the system into another type of technology like streetcar or LRT.

[Tacachale]

The Skyway wasn't meant to be a system that can travel great distances.  All it is, is a small downtown circulator in its current state. Utilizing it for anything that will reach UNF or the beach will require the retrofit of the system into another type of technology like streetcar or LRT.

I always take comments like that as a desire of some type of rail transit between the Beach and Downtown (that could connect with the Skyway). The "Skyway" in that sense is just the local reference point. I see it like Boston's transit system: there are several different types of trains in the T, as well as buses, and even if people don't understand the differences between them, they link up so you can get where you want to go.

[Thad Crowe]

Ennis, under the Skyway are the typical sidewalks & streets, only differentiated from other sidewalks & streets by the ugly structure above them. Putting kiosks or landscaping below it won't be different or exciting. What is different & interesting is for the pedestrian to move through the City on a 3rd floor level, which gives a fresh perspective that is a little like floating. And if 12 foot makes a good multi-purpose pathway, 20+ makes a great Pedway. IMO of course.

[thelakelander]

The most exciting thing you can do for the pedestrians in an urban setting is intergrate the land uses at street level. Everything else is secondary.

[Thad Crowe]

I agree, but sometimes secondary can supplement primary. Three dimensions!

[thelakelander]

Yes. However, at this point, we need focus on getting our primary right, while also becoming more multimodal friendly and connected. Given our environment, it's difficult for me to see how spending $65-$85 million for an disconnected elevated bike/ped path at the expense of fixed transit connectivity and street level vibrancy is good path to go. It's going against the grain (tried and true revitalization methods) and history has shown when we go against the grain, we end up failing and burning a lot of tax money doing so.

[thelakelander]

The advisory group that will help determine the future of the Skyway:

Paul Astleford (Visit Jacksonville)
Michelle Barth (Feeding Northeast Florida)
Debbie Buckland (BB&T and Downtown Vision Inc.)
Rick Catlett (Jacksonville Sports Council)
Alex Coley (NAI Hallmark Partners LLC)
Steve Crosby (CSX Real Property)
Husein Cumber (Florida East Coast Industries)
Marie Foster Gnage (Florida State College at Jacksonville Downtown Campus)
Dane Grey (Parking Services of America)
Tommy Hazouri (Jacksonville City Council)
Janice Lowe (The Jacksonville Landing)
Jeanne Miller (Jacksonville Civic Council)
Alan Mosley (Jax Chamber)
Kerri Stewart (Mayor's office)
Aundra Wallace (Downtown Investment Authority)

for more: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2015/09/22/jta-selects-skyway-advisory-group.html