Convention center, Downtown on draft list for Curry

[spuwho]

Yes.  And it's frustrating how misused statistics are by this city.

PLUS, there are larger cities with horrible winter climates who are not on the waterfront, let alone in FL, who can be however many times larger but should not necessarily be a larger convention destination.

Not that Jax should match Orlando/San Diego, but quite frankly, Jax should be putting itself in the same sort of bucket as a San Diego or Orlando rather than an Omaha, Kansas City, Indianapolis, etc, *when it comes to convention business AND tourism*.

In other words, Jax is a dismal, horrible, no-excuse underperformer, as per the norm, and yet somehow growth from 0 to 1 and 47th best are spun as positives, patting the city on the back, etc etc.  So frustrating.

The choir called, they said the preacher already gave the message.   

[simms3]

^^^Why can't we have a first rate convention center and everything else we want?

What's frustrating about Jax is it talks about everything and strives for nothing.

[Tacachale]

What's really frustrating about Jax is the pervasive inferiority complex.

[downtownbrown]

^amen

[thelakelander]

^The worst scenario is leaving what we have in place.  Even with a new management contract, we'd be essentially lighting public money on fire. The Hyatt, Bay Street Town Center streetscape, Prime Osborn Convention Center, Jacksonville Landing, our isolated Northside Amshack and JTA's proposed Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center are all heavily subsidized public investments.  None of them really work efficiently as presently configured or proposed. A major reason is they aren't well integrated or clustered together in a manner where they can feed off one another. The one thing, from a physical standpoint, that we can do to resolve that forever damning issue is to get the convention center out of the old train station and to convert that train station back to the grand gateway and crown jewel it was originally intended to be.

That alone, resolves a chunk of the city's issues from a public transportation standpoint and lays the foundation for a regionalwide transit network  to grow from. Then relocating the convention center (even with it's present amount of activity) at least places that activity right across the street from the Bay Street/Elbow bars and restaurants, the Hyatt's 966 rooms and two blocks away from the Landing's half empty 125,000 square feet of retail and dining space. Someone mentioned in another thread about looking at various projects within close proximity of one another as a single economic development move.  It makes sense. Imagine if we could find a way to get the Trio, Barnett, Hemming, the Landing and a new convention center off the ground and completed simultaneously. The combined activity would definitely provide a huge economic shot in the arm to nearly every struggling business already invested in the Northbank core.  It would also make those hard to renovate and lease empty buildings and retail spaces, much easier to bring back online.

We'd probably be better off economically, letting Liberty Street fall into the river and taking the $65 million Curry's setting aside to replace it, and spending that money on getting the convention center relocated to the courthouse site.

[thelakelander]

What about the transportation business?

All of our convention business at present could be easily handled by the sole hotel with its own convention space downtown.

This would be the point of building an exhibition hall adjacent to the Hyatt's ballroom. You'd end up with a consolidated convention center complex and hotel in the heart of the Northbank.....plus you'd have the added benefit of being able to return the most centralized railroad terminal in the state....back into a transportation complex.

[thelakelander]

To be an "efficient" intermodal transportation complex, we'd be better off getting that exhibition hall out of the spot where passenger platforms used to be. Working around something that doesn't fit only results in us spending more money than necessary for two things that will still ultimately be inefficient. No amount of management is going to truly resolve that particular issue at the current Prime Osborn site.

[simms3]

Stephen,

If management sucks, and the facility sucks (a double whammy), why not correct both?  Having an amazing management team in present facility is like forcing the Jaguars to play at UNF's stadium.  And perhaps we don't have an amazing team that deserves a better center, but a conference center without significant exhibition space as currently offered at the Hyatt would be even more limiting, by itself, as the Prime Osborn is, with its capacity as both a place to host meetings and exhibitions.

Jax is a waterfront city in FL with the potential for significant tourism and convention business based on mild, warm weather climate alone.  You're telling me there is no point in addressing this issue at all until we address a laundry list of others?  It shouldn't be considered asking too much to address this issue and the other issues all at once.  None of this is rocket science.  None of this is actually complicated at all.  The city makes it too complicated because apparently it is lacking actual brain cells, people leave work precisely at 5, and they refuse to create a funding source when they have all the power to.

[thelakelander]

The hotel has literally proven this point.  It presently books the conventions that would be appropriate for the bread and butter of the Prime Osborn.  Why is the hotel able to book conventions for its facilities, but the Prime Osborn was unable to book the same conventions for 20 years?

The bread and butter events move to larger centers that can accommodate them. We've lost a few over the years.

Jax is a waterfront city in FL with the potential for significant tourism and convention business based on mild, warm weather climate alone.  You're telling me there is no point in addressing this issue at all until we address a laundry list of others?  It shouldn't be considered asking too much to address this issue and the other issues all at once.  None of this is rocket science.  None of this is actually complicated at all.  The city makes it too complicated because apparently it is lacking actual brain cells, people leave work precisely at 5, and they refuse to create a funding source when they have all the power to.

This is one of the most frustrating things locally. None of this stuff is rocket science. However, we do everything in our power to screw ourselves and spend good money doing so.

[CCMjax]

The hotel has literally proven this point.  It presently books the conventions that would be appropriate for the bread and butter of the Prime Osborn.  Why is the hotel able to book conventions for its facilities, but the Prime Osborn was unable to book the same conventions for 20 years?

The bread and butter events move to larger centers that can accommodate them. We've lost a few over the years.

Jax is a waterfront city in FL with the potential for significant tourism and convention business based on mild, warm weather climate alone.  You're telling me there is no point in addressing this issue at all until we address a laundry list of others?  It shouldn't be considered asking too much to address this issue and the other issues all at once.  None of this is rocket science.  None of this is actually complicated at all.  The city makes it too complicated because apparently it is lacking actual brain cells, people leave work precisely at 5, and they refuse to create a funding source when they have all the power to.

This is one of the most frustrating things locally. None of this stuff is rocket science. However, we do everything in our power to screw ourselves and spend good money doing so.

How about we do a $3 million study on it?    Sorry, I had to.

[thelakelander]

^Unfortunately, we've probably already spent $3 million on convention center studies.  We've been talking and studying the idea of building a new convention center at least since the days of Delaney being in office. When it comes to blowing hot air for extended periods of time, we've proven we can't be beat.

What about the transportation business?

All of our convention business at present could be easily handled by the sole hotel with its own convention space downtown.

This would be the point of building an exhibition hall adjacent to the Hyatt's ballroom. You'd end up with a consolidated convention center complex and hotel in the heart of the Northbank.....plus you'd have the added benefit of being able to return the most centralized railroad terminal in the state....back into a transportation complex.

we could transform the old terminal back into a train station any time we want to.  There is a fantasy about it being a 'convention' 'center'.

In reality its just a mostly empty structure with a sign in front of it.  Might as well call it the Prime Osborn Airport.

I had to come back to this post.  It's got contradictions stamped all over it. I've been to three conventions of various size across the country in the past  three months and I helped coordinate a statewide conference last year. In every situation, we (convention/conference guests) spent big bucks at restaurants and bars within walking distance of the convention facility and hotel. Enough money to put a big smile on the faces of the owners of small businesses like Marks, Olio, Casa Dora, Chomp Chomp, etc. I suspect the same will happen at the next conference I'll be attending in South Florida in three weeks. With that in mind, let me express a different perspective to rest of this particular post.

For example, the largest event there is the Black Expo, independently organized by Volume Burks.  Yet there is no support or advertising or adjacent promotion to help grow that expo.  With the slightest bit of encouragement it could probably compete with one of the largest conventions in the United States: The Indianapolis Black Expo.

The Black Expo had 17,000 guests last year. In an earlier post, it was said that the hotel could host conventions just fine without a convention center. An event this size would not fit in any hotel in town. Without the PO, it would be in a place with a better and larger facility like Daytona.

Yet its practically invisible in this city and never a discussion at City pow wows.

Why grow something to the point it will move somewhere else. WIthout a larger and more modern facility with amenities to compete with places outside of Jacksonville's city limits, why bother growing?   

Similarly ever year the City invests in a large public Jazz Festival.  Despite the industry conventions that surround the jazz industry not a single organization has been encouraged to schedule their convention in jacksonville.  Not a single proposal.

There are plenty of mid sized conventions in the US. We are in Florida.  Yet none of them book here.  Its not because we don't have a larger facility.

It could simply be that old and outdated +30 year facility we're bringing to the table needs to be taken out back and finally put to death. With that said, let me get back to the original point I was going to make with the Black Expo. Regardless of different contract/promotion talk, no one here can make a logical argument that businesses like Marks, Olio, Underbelly, 1904, Burrito Gallery, the Landing's restaurants, etc. would not economically benefit from an extra 17,000 people walking past their front doors over a 3-day period verses those 17,000 going from convention center entrance, to a surface parking lot, getting in their car and immediately leaving downtown via the I-95 ramp immediately next door to the Prime Osborn. At the end of the day, we're talking about the revitalization of downtown. Better placement of existing facilities that are underutilized, so they can feed off one another is a good method way of advancing revitalization.

The hotel has literally proven this point.  It presently books the conventions that would be appropriate for the bread and butter of the Prime Osborn.  Why is the hotel able to book conventions for its facilities, but the Prime Osborn was unable to book the same conventions for 20 years?

And if the hotel is somehow possessed of magical powers, then what about First Baptist, which sponsors one of the largest Pastor's conferences in the United States with not a lick of support from the facilities downtown other than the hotel rooms.

I would love to see the convention business grow. It was part of our old formula for success and new investment.  But management and construction have to be addressed simultaneously.

I'm less concerned about the overall convention business and more interested in making the right moves incrementally that create a vibrant urban core. Relocating and upgrading some substandard facilities, so that the crowds they draw, help support existing struggling businesses and already made public subsidized projects makes a lot of sense from this perspective. I can't vouch for the contract situation one way or the other, but regardless of it, it doesn't reduce the need to cluster complementing uses close together within a compact pedestrian scale setting. Nevertheless, if we really want to see the convention business grow, we can't ignore the reality of having a substandard and out-of-date facility.

The Fire-Rescue East convention was held at the Prime Osborn for 10 years before outgrowing Jacksonville and relocating to a newer and larger convention center in Daytona Beach of all places. Here's a quote from a 2009 article about their decision to leave Jax to move to a smaller community with better facilities:

"When you've got an antiquated convention center, which the Prime Osborn was, with no hotels near it, it makes it hard," Scovotto said. "One year, the vendors had their booths under umbrellas because the roof was leaking." But the biggest problem he had was with the size of the convention. Some of the larger vendor exhibits had to be held in the parking lot, and he was still turning 20 to 25 vendors away each year.
source: http://jacksonville.com/business/2009-12-28/story/jacksonville_convention_centers_having_trouble_attracting_visitors


If we need another real life example, consider the Car & Truck Show. It also has stated that the obsolete Prime Osborn facility is not large enough to facilitate a larger event.

Opportunities for expanding events targeted at this market, such as the Jacksonville Spring Home & Patio Show and the Jacksonville International Car & Truck Show, are also limited. Reyes said associations that produce such events generate 60 percent to 70 percent of their revenue from them.

The Car & Truck Show, produced by event marketer Paragon Group Inc. of Massachusetts, has been at the Prime Osborn for nine years. For the past two years vehicles were placed on the grass lot in front of the Prime Osborn, in the parking lot and in lobbies. The Prime Osborn's doorways were changed to bring more vehicles to the lower rooms, said Barbara Pudney, vice president and show producer at Paragon.

Pudney said changing the doorways helped accommodate the Car & Truck Show's recent growth but an expanded Prime Osborn would facilitate an even bigger and better event.
source: http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2007/04/23/story2.html?jst=pn_pn_lk

And one last one for the road. In 2009, we lost the annual State Cheer & Dance Championships of Florida to Daytona Beach because of our substandard small exhibition hall. It's been in Daytona seven years now and has grown to 15,000 guests since the move.

DAYTONA BEACH — Nearly 15,000 people are expected to descend upon the World's Most Famous Beach this weekend as the State Cheer & Dance Championships returns for the seventh year in a row and with 340 youth cheer squads – the most participating teams since at least 2009.

Coaches, spectators and athletes will fill the Ocean Center convention complex in Daytona Beach Friday through Sunday. The event is expected to generate more than $3 million to the local economy and fill rooms in more than 20 Daytona Beach area hotels.

Tom Caradonio, executive director for the Daytona Beach Area Convention & Visitors Bureau, said the event is conducive to growing the local tourism industry.

"They come, they have a good time and then they go home and tell their friends," he said. "It's a great event and it's one I think we're fortunate to have for years to come."

Officials with Gainesville-based The American Championships company, which organizes and runs cheerleading competitions, moved their state finals to Daytona Beach in 2009 after experiencing a drop in participation at its former Jacksonville site.

Paul Domingo, associate vice president for The American Championships, attributes the recession and the event outgrowing the venue.
Source: http://www.news-journalonline.com/article/20150114/BUSINESS/150119680

All three of these are real life examples of homegrown conventions that we could probably grow and get back if we had a facility that accommodated the needs of those hosting major events in the 21st century.