Urban Construction Update - July 2015

[Charles Hunter]

I heard the other night that Laverneous (sp?) Coles is seeking zoning exceptions to re-open a dance/entertainment/alcohol venue on Philips Highway at Bowden.  Is he expanding his interests, or has he given up on the downtown venture?

[thelakelander]

He already owns a strip club at Philips and Bowden. I suspect this is the place.

[Tacachale]

He already owns a strip club at Philips and Bowden. I suspect this is the place.

Is it "upscale and grown" tho?

[ProjectMaximus]

The love for urban living doesn't go away because you commit to one person and decide to have kids. I'm not surprised to see families interested in new multifamily housing near downtown. I was more surprised at the lack of housing types and kiddie amenities in downtown, when I first came to town. Truly great cities accommodate the entire life cycle. Get a decent public school down there and the flood gates will open!

I basically agree, but I would think that no matter how urban minded the individual, in Jax you'd want at least 3 bedrooms if you have kids.

[ProjectMaximus]

Somewhat related note, Marcus Lemonis was listed this month as a new member of Epping Forest.  I'm guessing he'll be using the club for meeting space while he is in town, but that I found it interesting that he is strengthening his ties to Jax a little more.

that is pretty cool.

Finally saw the progress report episode for Sweet Pete's. Seems like he wants Pete to do more networking with corporate execs. Could joining Epping be part of these efforts?

[thelakelander]

The love for urban living doesn't go away because you commit to one person and decide to have kids. I'm not surprised to see families interested in new multifamily housing near downtown. I was more surprised at the lack of housing types and kiddie amenities in downtown, when I first came to town. Truly great cities accommodate the entire life cycle. Get a decent public school down there and the flood gates will open!

I basically agree, but I would think that no matter how urban minded the individual, in Jax you'd want at least 3 bedrooms if you have kids.

Depends on how many kids you have, your background and how much time you spend in the house. My mom grew up in a four bedroom house with both parents and her 4 brothers and 4 sisters living under the same roof.  My dad lived with his grandmother, two of his aunts and at least 4 of their kids, in a three bedroom shotgun. I grew up in a 3/2 with 2 brothers. When my parents had guests, they got one of our rooms and we slept on the couch in the living room. Upon high school graduation, my dad threatened to knock the walls between the bedrooms down to expand his master. He said, this would keep us from thinking we could come back and live with them as adults.

If you have one or two small ones and don't entertain many guests, you can get by with two bedrooms and a futon in the living room. I did this with my first apartment out of school before making the mistake of buying a 3 bed/2 bath house in suburban Lakeland a year later. Despite the apartment being a 2/1 with about 600 square feet, I never felt cramped probably because I spent the money saved not paying higher rent/mortgage going out of town on the weekends. After work, all I wanted to do was eat and sleep and it served those needs well. 

With the house, I got a lot more space but I really hated having to keep up with the yard and drive everywhere for everything. After 4 months of being in the house, I quit my job for one in Ponte Vedra and moved back into a 2/1.5 apartment/townhouse. I'll probably never move into a suburban house again because of that experience.

[ProjectMaximus]

I get that some people are used to that. But that doesn't mean you'd choose that given the options here.

I've spent short-term stays (never lived though) with two people in ~350 sq ft in Hong Kong, six people in ~700 sq ft in Singapore and my wife lived in a 400 sq ft studio on Redondo Beach. With one child we certainly could handle a 2-bedroom, 1000 sq ft apt in Brooklyn Riverside, e.g., but why would we choose to do that? Would you, Lake? That was the basis for my viewpoint, even before you factor in the premium you would be paying for that small box. $1600/month for 982 sq ft? Wouldn't most families choose to get a larger home for less money in a surrounding neighborhood??

Anyway, I ask incredulously cause thats my mindset, but clearly if it's mostly families moving in then many others disagree with my mindset lol.

[thelakelander]

I thought about doing it briefly with 2 at Brooklyn Riverside and 220 Riverside.  In the end, it wasn't the size or cost of the space that turned me off.  It was Jax, in general.  The public schools suck in the area and I refuse to pay a couple thousand extra to send my kids to a private school that lacks the cultural diversity/demographics I prefer for them to be exposed too. Thus, I'd pay more for less space and end up driving more then I do now in daily reverse commutes. With that said, if I ever relocate to some place like Chicago or DC, I'd spend the extra cash for a smaller space with no problem. I have no problem reducing housing square footage when the neighborhood around you becomes your living room, diversity increases, public schools improve and my personal auto costs drop significantly.

Before my older brother finished his house, just south of DT Fort Lauderdale, he did the same exact thing. For a few years, he paid +$2k/month for a 2/2 condo in a tower on the Las Olas River in DT Fort Lauderdale.  He squeezed his two teenage daughters and his wife in there with him. It was smaller than the place I had rented in Lakeland, but shops, restaurants, boats, parks, a movie theater, grocery store, museums, etc. were literally right outside of the tower's first floor entrance.

[thelakelander]

^With that said, I really wanted to move to San Marco this time last year. Being on the south side of the river resolved the public school/reverse commute dilemma. Unfortunately, it was too difficult to find a 2/2 with full W/D connections (the W/D connection is a must have) with interior conditions for my lady's liking. At this point, I'm pretty much convinced that I'm going to have to build something for myself, if I'm ever to move to urban core Jax (which I plan on doing).  So in the meantime, I settled for Southpointe. A five year old, 1,300 square foot, 3/2 condo with a garage and direct tv tossed in. Not really walkable (but what really is locally?) but an easy commute to the schools in Mandarin, little league football off Baymeadows Way, my downtown office, the beach and my Central Florida office (via I-95). Definitely, not my favorite place, but it works for now, given our places of employment.

[Bill Hoff]

^ To your schools point, don't let that be a preventative factor.

Magnet schools aren't really that difficult to gain admission to. It's where parents who value education send their kids who don't live in good school districts. You can also utilize School Choice. Many, many (thousands?) of parents who live in urban core neighborhoods do this.

[thelakelander]

^Looked at magnets like Darnell Cookman. Good school. However, it was geared towards a field my son isn't interested in.  Ended up going with a magnet that suited his interests in Mandarin. At this point in time, it is what it is. Next year, it will be on to high school.

[Captain Zissou]

^With that said, I really wanted to move to San Marco this time last year. Being on the south side of the river resolved the public school/reverse commute dilemma. Unfortunately, it was too difficult to find a 2/2 with full W/D connections (the W/D connection is a must have) with interior conditions for my lady's liking. At this point, I'm pretty much convinced that I'm going to have to build something for myself, if I'm ever to move to urban core Jax (which I plan on doing).  So in the meantime, I settled for Southpointe. A five year old, 1,300 square foot, 3/2 condo with a garage and direct tv tossed in. Not really walkable (but what really is locally?) but an easy commute to the schools in Mandarin, little league football off Baymeadows Way, my downtown office, the beach and my Central Florida office (via I-95). Definitely, not my favorite place, but it works for now, given our places of employment.

Lake I wanted to buy a row house in Oklahoma (between hendricks and SMB, not the state), but it doesn't exist. The lack of diversity in building stock is really a downer.  If you ever want to go in on a project there, let me know!

[thelakelander]

^I feel you. I wanted a rowhouse or at least a townhouse somewhere near downtown when I first came to town. Not really knowing the area at the time, I figured there would be a good number of choices because it seemed like these things were being constructed in abundance in cities around the south a decade ago. Heck, I would have quickly settled for something at East San Marco if it were completed and available. During the relocation process, I only had two days to visit town to find something. I didn't want a flat with something above or below me, so that took out 11 East, Carling, etc., causing me to settle on the second day for something off Southside Boulevard between JTB and I-95.

I believe the lack of diversity in available building stock is so great, it's hard to prove that most prefer housing further out. The reality of the situation is the choices can get pretty limited real quick for the average person. I'm really hoping that 220 Riverside and Brooklyn Riverside are successful. They could open the floodgates for more infill housing, thus diversifying the available building stock and increasing urban vibrancy in the process. On the other hand, if they struggle, it could set us back a bit.

[Lunican]

^ The Carling wasn't even open back then. 11E was about the only option.

Lack of options when I came to town was how I ended up with a house in Springfield. It worked out ok and saved me from commuting which was a top priority. But housing options in jax are pretty limited.

[jcjohnpaint]

For us as well.  We came down from Pittsburgh (and had to decide in weeks).  Jacksonville (given the size) was quite a shock.  We thought we would end up at the beach.  We ended up on Hodges for years.  We decided to buy a house in Avondale, but had to look at a lot of crap first before we bought.  I think most people who come down here from the northeast are shocked by the difference in housing limitations.