How All Aboard Florida Train Project Will Shift Traffic

[Metro Jacksonville]

How All Aboard Florida Train Project Will Shift Traffic



Infrastructure has been driving population growth in the Florida East Coast corridor since the 1930's. This has caused traffic jams, congested roadways and many negative environmental impacts. Let the All Aboard Florida train project make your travel experience easier and more enjoyable with comforts like WiFi and a cafe cart. No longer will you need to sit in traffic on I-95 or the Turnpike.

Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-jul-how-all-aboard-florida-train-project-will-shift-traffic

[NaldoAveKnight]

This article has to be sarcastic.  If they are serious then I want what they are taking!  When was the last time anyone considered taking a train anywhere?  I'm not talking about Chicago/New York/Boston/SF commuter trains.  I'm talking about a train from one Florida city to another Florida city.  What do you do once you're at the destination city?  Walk to where you need to go?  How do you get to the train station to begin with?  Drive your car?

This whole thing is a boondoggle for the train company to get tax payer funded improvements for their tracks.

[acme54321]

It doesnt take much to see that a big part of this is to get tracks into Orlando, no surprise there.  I'd like to see a breakdown of the amounts of private vs public money though.  All I know for sure is that the OIA station will be built by the airport (public) but I think everything else is private with maybe some government backed loans.  I don't think they would be building these huge TODs down south if they were looking for someone else to pay toimprove their trackage.  FECI and its multiple subsidiaries are looking a a bunch of diversified revenue streams coming from this thing once it's complete.

[thelakelander]

This article has to be sarcastic.  If they are serious then I want what they are taking!  When was the last time anyone considered taking a train anywhere?  I'm not talking about Chicago/New York/Boston/SF commuter trains.  I'm talking about a train from one Florida city to another Florida city.  What do you do once you're at the destination city?  Walk to where you need to go?  How do you get to the train station to begin with?  Drive your car?

What do you do when you fly into a city?  I'm actually seriously considering flying into Fort Lauderdale for a conference in September because the roundtrip fares between there and Jax are running as low as $96. With that said, a train that drops you off in downtown Miami (which is increasingly becoming a destination in an of itself) gives you direct access to metromover, metrorail and tri-rail. It's also not difficult to get from DT to South Beach. Getting from an airport or rail station isn't as difficult or expensive as you'd believe.  Even in complete suburbia. I do it on a regular basis.

This whole thing is a boondoggle for the train company to get tax payer funded improvements for their tracks.

I wouldn't call it a boondoggle because passenger rail isn't the only thing going on here. FECI will make tons of cash off shipping freight and real estate development around their stations. After all, that's how this state was basically developed in the first place.

[thelakelander]

It doesnt take much to see that a big part of this is to get tracks into Orlando, no surprise there.  I'd like to see a breakdown of the amounts of private vs public money though.  All I know for sure is that the OIA station will be built by the airport (public) but I think everything else is private with maybe some government backed loans.  I don't think they would be building these huge TODs down south if they were looking for someone else to pay toimprove their trackage.  FECI and its multiple subsidiaries are looking a a bunch of diversified revenue streams coming from this thing once it's complete.

OIA was always going to build their second terminal and intermodal station. It's their's, not AAF's.  The recession and Rick Scott killing HSR delayed it. Nevertheless, we have decade old concepts of OIA's station floating around in our archives somewhere. I'll try and dig them up.

[CCMjax]

This article has to be sarcastic.  If they are serious then I want what they are taking!  When was the last time anyone considered taking a train anywhere?  I'm not talking about Chicago/New York/Boston/SF commuter trains.  I'm talking about a train from one Florida city to another Florida city.  What do you do once you're at the destination city?  Walk to where you need to go?  How do you get to the train station to begin with?  Drive your car?

This whole thing is a boondoggle for the train company to get tax payer funded improvements for their tracks.

That is currently the mentality in places like Florida, but as our metropolitan areas rebuild, infill and mature and more and more people move to the cities that will not be the mentality 30 years down the road.  Overpopulation will start to make the train more attractive.  Overpopulation is currently happening in Florida and we need to start planning for the future.  It may be expensive and be met with huge opposition with people who have opinions like yours but it needs to happen eventually, why not plan for it now.  Same reason Jax needs to plan for commuter rail that will be constructed maybe 20 to 30 years down the road.  It is naïve to think current logic on transportation will be same decades from now as it is now.

[DanCio]

There isn't any public funding for this project.  They are using private activity bonds and other private financing.  Nothing is backed by any federal or state agency.  Crossings are being paid for by AAF even though the road owner is responsible for their maintenance.  Why?  They own the road that crosses private property.

The terminal at OIA was going to happen with or without AAF.  They are not building a station for AAF, they are building it for all transportation.  It's primarily a new parking deck for the airport, a new centralized car rental facility and a bus and and taxi terminal.  No one gets to use it for free.  Everyone pays, cars that park there, car rental companies that use it, buses and taxis that use it and AAF.  They pay per train and per passenger that use the facility.  Sunrail now also wants to use it as well.

People need to stop saying everyone won't use AAF because they won't use AAF.  What do you do when you get to your destination?  The same thing people do when they get to Orlando.  Rent a car, get a cab, take a shuttle.  Why do people think that if you own a car you're lost when you go somewhere without it?

[thelakelander]

^Good point. You move around from a train station the same way you do from an airport.

Btw, here's a graphic showing MCO's planned expansion. This one was terminated by 9/11 (way before the concept of AAF came alive):




Here's the 2010 master plan, when the high speed rail line between the airport and Tampa was being funded by Obama:




Here's phase 1 of  that plan, which is what AAF will be pulling into:



As DanCio stated, it's pretty inaccurate to lump MCO's expansion costs as a public subsidy for AAF. They were planning to expand and include a intermodal terminal at their complex anyway.

[spuwho]

Enterprise already offers daily rentals to biz travelers in metro areas. When I was in Seattle last year, I could walk to 3 rental places from the monorail or streetcar. One place was offering Toyota IQ's for $12/day.  That beats cab fare if you need to reach a burb.

With new apps that can link your destination with your preferred travel means, options for transportation are going to grow.

Using multimodal hubs is a great way to integrate these mobility types.

AAF has to pay market rates to lease space in the new OIA transportation center. No different than any airline renting terminal gates.

No doubt, many in the transportation industry are watching AAF and its ability to succeed. Its a business model that cant be duplicated just anywhere. (Though a few are trying)

[Crabernacle]

Why do people think that if you own a car you're lost when you go somewhere without it?

American Exceptionalism™ and ignorance of history. No matter how many examples you hold up, some people refuse to even consider other options. Something is utilized by most of the developed world? America could never do that, because we're so very special and different. Yet it's the ignorance that's truly astounding. I recently got into an argument with a man who claimed that rail would never succeed in Florida because geographically it's just too spread out. To hear him tell it Florida was founded by cars, for cars and that's how it will always be. "Cars today, cars tomorrow, cars forever!" I told him Henry Flagler might want a word.

[CCMjax]

Why do people think that if you own a car you're lost when you go somewhere without it?

American Exceptionalism™ and ignorance of history. No matter how many examples you hold up, some people refuse to even consider other options. Something is utilized by most of the developed world? America could never do that, because we're so very special and different. Yet it's the ignorance that's truly astounding. I recently got into an argument with a man who claimed that rail would never succeed in Florida because geographically it's just too spread out. To hear him tell it Florida was founded by cars, for cars and that's how it will always be. "Cars today, cars tomorrow, cars forever!" I told him Henry Flagler might want a word.

What people like that don't understand is how to look decades into the future and see what life would be like if we continued to depend solely on cars for transportation.  It is not feasible to not have other alternatives if you look at the growth trends.  Our highways an roadways will become gridlocked and the quality of life would suffer.

[thelakelander]

Why do people think that if you own a car you're lost when you go somewhere without it?

American Exceptionalism™ and ignorance of history. No matter how many examples you hold up, some people refuse to even consider other options. Something is utilized by most of the developed world? America could never do that, because we're so very special and different. Yet it's the ignorance that's truly astounding. I recently got into an argument with a man who claimed that rail would never succeed in Florida because geographically it's just too spread out. To hear him tell it Florida was founded by cars, for cars and that's how it will always be. "Cars today, cars tomorrow, cars forever!" I told him Henry Flagler might want a word.

Isn't Florida one of the densest states in the country?

[NaldoAveKnight]

It doesnt take much to see that a big part of this is to get tracks into Orlando, no surprise there.  I'd like to see a breakdown of the amounts of private vs public money though.  All I know for sure is that the OIA station will be built by the airport (public) but I think everything else is private with maybe some government backed loans.  I don't think they would be building these huge TODs down south if they were looking for someone else to pay toimprove their trackage.  FECI and its multiple subsidiaries are looking a a bunch of diversified revenue streams coming from this thing once it's complete.

They plan to float $1.75 billion in tax-exempt bonds.  Tax free means that it's a tax payer subsidy, commonly known as corporate welfare.  Then there's the $1.6 billion application for Railroad Rehabilitation Infrastructure Financing loans that is a direct loan from the U.S. government.  That loan would leave the taxpayers on the hook.  There are no profitable passenger train lines in North America.  Guess who will pay for the track improvements once this scam falls apart?  You will as a tax payer.

If they want to build a brand new rail line for high speed trains that would be great, however, they want to upgrade existing track and have trains travel over ancient bridges and crossings that will never be able to handle real high speed trains.  These aren't real high speed trains they are planning on.  It will shave barely any travel time off and the cost of the ticket will be much higher than the gas and car depreciation to just get in a car from Miami and travel to Disney World in Orlando.  A family of four using the train?  It will cost $720 round trip to goto Disney from Miami.  I'm not sure if it makes any sense.  A CEO traveling to Miami for a business trip on a public train?  Not sure if that makes sense either.  Who is the planned demographic?  These are real questions that need to be asked and have legitimate answers before tax payers put up money.

I guess most of the posters here work for CSX? 

[jaxlore]

It doesnt take much to see that a big part of this is to get tracks into Orlando, no surprise there.  I'd like to see a breakdown of the amounts of private vs public money though.  All I know for sure is that the OIA station will be built by the airport (public) but I think everything else is private with maybe some government backed loans.  I don't think they would be building these huge TODs down south if they were looking for someone else to pay toimprove their trackage.  FECI and its multiple subsidiaries are looking a a bunch of diversified revenue streams coming from this thing once it's complete.

They plan to float $1.75 billion in tax-exempt bonds.  Tax free means that it's a tax payer subsidy, commonly known as corporate welfare.  Then there's the $1.6 billion application for Railroad Rehabilitation Infrastructure Financing loans that is a direct loan from the U.S. government.  That loan would leave the taxpayers on the hook.  There are no profitable passenger train lines in North America.  Guess who will pay for the track improvements once this scam falls apart?  You will as a tax payer.

If they want to build a brand new rail line for high speed trains that would be great, however, they want to upgrade existing track and have trains travel over ancient bridges and crossings that will never be able to handle real high speed trains.  These aren't real high speed trains they are planning on.  It will shave barely any travel time off and the cost of the ticket will be much higher than the gas and car depreciation to just get in a car from Miami and travel to Disney World in Orlando.  A family of four using the train?  It will cost $720 round trip to goto Disney from Miami.  I'm not sure if it makes any sense.  A CEO traveling to Miami for a business trip on a public train?  Not sure if that makes sense either.  Who is the planned demographic?  These are real questions that need to be asked and have legitimate answers before tax payers put up money.

I guess most of the posters here work for CSX? 

Funny does this guy even look at this site? We are tired of same old transportation BS that's forced down our throats. I am tired I having to get in my car and pay for parking downtown just to go 5 miles. I would love to go to Orlando\Miami\etc and not have to get in a car or a plane.

[NaldoAveKnight]

It doesnt take much to see that a big part of this is to get tracks into Orlando, no surprise there.  I'd like to see a breakdown of the amounts of private vs public money though.  All I know for sure is that the OIA station will be built by the airport (public) but I think everything else is private with maybe some government backed loans.  I don't think they would be building these huge TODs down south if they were looking for someone else to pay toimprove their trackage.  FECI and its multiple subsidiaries are looking a a bunch of diversified revenue streams coming from this thing once it's complete.

They plan to float $1.75 billion in tax-exempt bonds.  Tax free means that it's a tax payer subsidy, commonly known as corporate welfare.  Then there's the $1.6 billion application for Railroad Rehabilitation Infrastructure Financing loans that is a direct loan from the U.S. government.  That loan would leave the taxpayers on the hook.  There are no profitable passenger train lines in North America.  Guess who will pay for the track improvements once this scam falls apart?  You will as a tax payer.

If they want to build a brand new rail line for high speed trains that would be great, however, they want to upgrade existing track and have trains travel over ancient bridges and crossings that will never be able to handle real high speed trains.  These aren't real high speed trains they are planning on.  It will shave barely any travel time off and the cost of the ticket will be much higher than the gas and car depreciation to just get in a car from Miami and travel to Disney World in Orlando.  A family of four using the train?  It will cost $720 round trip to goto Disney from Miami.  I'm not sure if it makes any sense.  A CEO traveling to Miami for a business trip on a public train?  Not sure if that makes sense either.  Who is the planned demographic?  These are real questions that need to be asked and have legitimate answers before tax payers put up money.

I guess most of the posters here work for CSX? 

Funny does this guy even look at this site? We are tired of same old transportation BS that's forced down our throats. I am tired I having to get in my car and pay for parking downtown just to go 5 miles. I would love to go to Orlando\Miami\etc and not have to get in a car or a plane.

There's an existing bus and train system to service your needs.  It only costs $63 to travel from Jax to Miami on the train.  When was the last time you used this option?