Convention center, Downtown on draft list for Curry

[The_Choose_1]

the core of the city will be still be fairly dead in 2025.

The core of the city is dead, most of you cannot see it. Adding a hotel to the LST, whaat? What business traveler wants to go there, versus the HYatt on the river? The Hyatt is stripping all the rooms down to the core and rebuilding them all, so even if the Marriott comes in the next decade, Hyatt will already have made a presence downtown with the businesses and Visit Jax. There is nothing around the LST, unless Eddie and Chuck want to put up their clients there instead of the Gator Lodge.

Forget what happens in other cities, it does not happen here. MetroJax has been dreaming for years of light rail, where is it? still a dream. Jax is not Orlando or Miami or Tampa or San Fran, but it is sprawl and growth in the burbs, as compared to downtown. Downtown is already dead.

You can use the oft provided http://www.esri.com/data/esri_data/ziptapestry or  http://www.bestplaces.net/zip-code/florida/jacksonville/ and see what is in 32202 right now, what its median income is, the type of person in the area. This is what is here right now, meanwhile the exodus continues away from the core, more and more people are choosing to live further away from the downtown core. Why? Because there is nothing in the core right now, and no matter the number of Healthy Towns or Shipyards or Berkmans, they don't fix the continuing issue that downtown is nowheresville.

The truth hurts but this poster is right on the money. 

[vicupstate]

Believe it or not Mtrain, there are cities all over the country that have more than one hotel in their Downtown.  Historic hotels are quite popular and successful in many of them also.

We all know DT JAX is dead, the whole point is how to bring it back to life. If simply being on the river was the key to success, the Hyatt would not have been struggling for it's entire existence.     

Courtyard by Marriott was already lined up to go the LST but the project never gotten financed.  They had no problem with the location.

This is what is here right now, meanwhile the exodus continues away from the core, more and more people are choosing to live further away from the downtown core.

Do you realize that this is the polar opposite of what is happening in just about every other city in the country?

[The_Choose_1]

Believe it or not Mtrain, there are cities all over the country that have more than one hotel in their Downtown.  Historic hotels are quite popular and successful in many of them also.

We all know DT JAX is dead, the whole point is how to bring it back to life. If simply being on the river was the key to success, the Hyatt would not have been struggling for it's entire existence.     

Courtyard by Marriott was already lined up to go the LST but the project never gotten financed.  They had no problem with the location.

This is what is here right now, meanwhile the exodus continues away from the core, more and more people are choosing to live further away from the downtown core.

Do you realize that this is the polar opposite of what is happening in just about every other city in the country?

"Courtyard by Marriott was already lined up to go the LST but the project never gotten financed." This is the same song that always seems to be played in Jacksonville Florida. Unless it's the City of Jacksonville giving the Jaguars everything they want?

[finehoe]

Do you realize that this is the polar opposite of what is happening in just about every other city in the country?

Which makes it all the more disturbing that we can't seem to get it to happen here.

[The_Choose_1]

Do you realize that this is the polar opposite of what is happening in just about every other city in the country?

Which makes it all the more disturbing that we can't seem to get it to happen here.

I blame the Good Old Boys that still seem to run this city? Peyton, Haskell, Gay etc etc etc.

[downtownbrown]

Do you realize that this is the polar opposite of what is happening in just about every other city in the country?

Which makes it all the more disturbing that we can't seem to get it to happen here.

I blame the Good Old Boys that still seem to run this city? Peyton, Haskell, Gay etc etc etc.

For what? Not spending enough? Preventing others from investing?

[The_Choose_1]

Do you realize that this is the polar opposite of what is happening in just about every other city in the country?

Which makes it all the more disturbing that we can't seem to get it to happen here.

I blame the Good Old Boys that still seem to run this city? Peyton, Haskell, Gay etc etc etc.

For what? Not spending enough? Preventing others from investing?

CONTROL & POWER!

[thelakelander]

Alvin certainly wasn't a "Good Old Boy", so it may be time to put that thought to rest. The main problems we've had is spreading the money invested too thin, and not investing enough in the simple not-so-sexy items (parks, streets, transit, bike connectivity, landscaping, etc.). Thus, invested money and projects have not been able to build upon one another. Jax is really no different from any other average America city enjoying a downtown renaissance. We just tend to make the process more difficult by ignoring and overlooking the obvious issues.  One could argue, the convention center problem is one of those overlooked and continually ignored issues.

[downtownbrown]

Alvin certainly wasn't a "Good Old Boy", so it may be time to put that thought to rest. The main problems we've had is spreading the money invested too thin, and not investing enough in the simple not-so-sexy items (parks, streets, transit, bike connectivity, landscaping, etc.). Thus, invested money and projects have not been able to build upon one another. Jax is really no different from any other average America city enjoying a downtown renaissance. We just tend to make the process more difficult by ignoring and overlooking the obvious issues.  One could argue, the convention center problem is one of those overlooked and continually ignored issues.

True.  We conceptually swing for the fences, but actually get bogged down in bureaucracy.  It is an open question whether or not a vital market can be created by government. It's about risk takers selling their inventions to the public market.  If Jax builds it, nobody knows if they will come. Seems like we would rather sit around and wait for a White Knight than get serious about momentum.

[thelakelander]

Jax shouldn't build it. It should do like several other second and third tier markets. Build an environment that people generally enjoy and want to be in. Have the best parks, lit streets, lush landscaping, interactive public spaces that are well integrated with the land uses surrounding them, good multimodal infrastructure that novices will even use, etc. Less worrying about 2k residents and condos at the Shipyards, Healthy Town, etc. and more on making sure the lawn is mowed consistently.  With that said, there are still going to be a few key projects that public assistance will be needed to help jump start. However, those should be well positioned and coordinated with the investment in not-so-sexy items.

[tufsu1]

This is what is here right now, meanwhile the exodus continues away from the core, more and more people are choosing to live further away from the downtown core. Why? Because there is nothing in the core right now, and no matter the number of Healthy Towns or Shipyards or Berkmans, they don't fix the continuing issue that downtown is nowheresville.

This downtown resident somewhat begs to differ!

[Tacachale]

So the other day, some folks were upset that the convention center wasn't being prioritized by Curry's team. Now folks are upset that it has been prioritized. Y'all too funny.

[simms3]

the core of the city will be still be fairly dead in 2025.

The core of the city is dead, most of you cannot see it. Adding a hotel to the LST, whaat? What business traveler wants to go there, versus the HYatt on the river? The Hyatt is stripping all the rooms down to the core and rebuilding them all, so even if the Marriott comes in the next decade, Hyatt will already have made a presence downtown with the businesses and Visit Jax. There is nothing around the LST, unless Eddie and Chuck want to put up their clients there instead of the Gator Lodge.

Forget what happens in other cities, it does not happen here. MetroJax has been dreaming for years of light rail, where is it? still a dream. Jax is not Orlando or Miami or Tampa or San Fran, but it is sprawl and growth in the burbs, as compared to downtown. Downtown is already dead.

You can use the oft provided http://www.esri.com/data/esri_data/ziptapestry or  http://www.bestplaces.net/zip-code/florida/jacksonville/ and see what is in 32202 right now, what its median income is, the type of person in the area. This is what is here right now, meanwhile the exodus continues away from the core, more and more people are choosing to live further away from the downtown core. Why? Because there is nothing in the core right now, and no matter the number of Healthy Towns or Shipyards or Berkmans, they don't fix the continuing issue that downtown is nowheresville.

Wow.

First of all, you clearly don't travel because hotels also have points systems.  Right now there is no Marriott downtown.  If there is, all of those who prefer Marriott and earn points with them will stay.  It's like an airline, get it?  Many people do have multiple accounts (I have Starwood, Marriott, Kimpton, and Hyatt).

A boutique Marriott, like an Autograph in a restored building like the Adagio I put my Marriotts Rewards parents up in here in SF right in the Theater District, is certainly preferred over some shitty massive convention hotel like the Hyatt in DT Jax.  I'm not the only one who feels that way, and Hyatt in DT Jax is a dime a dozen.  Where Mickey Mouse hoodie wearing families go and large business group travelers.  Even if LST turns into a Courtyard - I guarantee there is a whole slew of people who prefer an intimate, clean Courtyard with a boutiquey feel to that ugly POS we have on the river.


RE: your other comments.  Wow.

Let's all quit dreaming now!  Forget our own dreams!  Forget the dreams of others! Geez, what a miserable miserable way to even think!!


And do you not realize that in EVERY city more people choose to live in the burbs than in a downtown?  Even Manhattan can only fit so many people...most people moving to NYC move to Queens, or the burbs out in LI, CT, NJ, further up NY.  Same with Chicago...that city puts up 10 towers a year to house thousands of new people downtown, but still more people moving to Chicago don't choose to live in a high rise downtown.  But you would never know that if logic fails you and you visit, seeing that massive skyline and all that construction.

DT Jax would be no different.  It would be a world first if all of a sudden more people chose to live in the urban core over the burbs, here in Jax.  Nobody is thinking that will happen.  What people want is just some people to want to live in the urban core.  And we know there is some demand, but THERE ARE NO HOUSING OPTIONS!  When there are housing options, they do fill up.  Perhaps not in record time at record pricing like you have out in San Francisco, but they do fill up, they do make developers/investors happy, generally, and having more and more of these options WILL BE THE ONLY WAY JAX CAN REMAIN COMPETITIVE since MY generation wants these options and we are YOUR future!

You are on the wrong board...you need to join like an Avondale Housing Watch or neighborhood association so you can block all future new restaurants, judge your neighbors' home renovations and tell them what they need to change to get your approval, and oppose any and all new housing developments that will "increase traffic" in your neighborhood.  Not sure if Avondale is your neighborhood or not...but this board will only frustrate you.  Go there...and join such a group.  You'll fit right in and find your true life's calling. 

[downtownbrown]

^speaking of demand, anyone know how Brooklyn is doing?

[CCMjax]

the core of the city will be still be fairly dead in 2025.

The core of the city is dead, most of you cannot see it. Adding a hotel to the LST, whaat? What business traveler wants to go there, versus the HYatt on the river? The Hyatt is stripping all the rooms down to the core and rebuilding them all, so even if the Marriott comes in the next decade, Hyatt will already have made a presence downtown with the businesses and Visit Jax. There is nothing around the LST, unless Eddie and Chuck want to put up their clients there instead of the Gator Lodge.

Forget what happens in other cities, it does not happen here. MetroJax has been dreaming for years of light rail, where is it? still a dream. Jax is not Orlando or Miami or Tampa or San Fran, but it is sprawl and growth in the burbs, as compared to downtown. Downtown is already dead.

You can use the oft provided http://www.esri.com/data/esri_data/ziptapestry or  http://www.bestplaces.net/zip-code/florida/jacksonville/ and see what is in 32202 right now, what its median income is, the type of person in the area. This is what is here right now, meanwhile the exodus continues away from the core, more and more people are choosing to live further away from the downtown core. Why? Because there is nothing in the core right now, and no matter the number of Healthy Towns or Shipyards or Berkmans, they don't fix the continuing issue that downtown is nowheresville.

Mtrain- 

First, what do you propose they do with the LST?  Tear it down and pave it over with another surface lot?  Or just leave it there in its current state for another 20 years?  Both would be gigantic mistakes and a failure to capitalize on an architectural gem, and Jacksonville doesn't have many of those because it's been tearing them down for the last half century and building hideous monstrosities on the river like the Hyatt or just leaving the properties bare.  I actually think more greenspace is needed along the river so people can enjoy it in more ways than just from a hotel room.  And don't underestimate the value renovated historical buildings bring to cities.  They aren't always the most profitable in terms of quick cash return but they are links to the past, provide substance to neighborhoods and sections of DT, show the culture and maturity of a city and gives citizens something to be proud of.  It must be saved and it must include a mix of uses.  In New Orleans, do you go to the French Quarter because it's on the river?  No, you go to party, see the historical buildings and enjoy the vibrant streets.  The river is great but it is not the only thing that New Orleans and Jacksonville can offer. 

Second, light rail is only a topic right now because Jacksonville needs to start planning for it.  It will eventually be here just not in the next decade or so, because it will eventually have to.  What you are saying is the same thing the people of Charlotte, Orlando, Tampa and countless other cities were saying about two decades ago when those cities were almost identical to what Jacksonville is now.  Dead downtowns and only suburban style growth and people just excepted that's the way it was there.  But things changed in those cities and they will too here but like everyone on this board understands, it always seems to happen in Jax about 20 years after it happens everywhere else.

Third . . . .  I don't remember what my third point was but maybe it will come back to me.