Avondale Property Owners Attempt to Close Public River Access

[RattlerGator]

I wonder what a review of similar easements around Jacksonville would discover? Consistent application of a standard? Not sure about that; at the very least it would be an interesting study. An itemization of all waterway easements in Jacksonville over the last 50 years, the character of the neighborhood where the easement or property ownership exists, and the dispensation of requests for modification or elimination of easement or property ownership rights might prove to be very instructive.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

There is a large stormwater drain pipe that runs to the river.  You can see this submerged outfall from the bulkhead.  So, no, the JEA will not be abandoning that easement.

That makes sense.  Thanks.

[RattlerGator]

There is a large stormwater drain pipe that runs to the river.  You can see this submerged outfall from the bulkhead.  So, no, the JEA will not be abandoning that easement.

Does that mean this is one of the places that *was* polluting the St. Johns River, or *is* polluting it? Or neither? Does anyone have any idea?

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

There is a large stormwater drain pipe that runs to the river.  You can see this submerged outfall from the bulkhead.  So, no, the JEA will not be abandoning that easement.

Does that mean this is one of the places that *was* polluting the St. Johns River, or *is* polluting it? Or neither? Does anyone have any idea?

If you consider runoff 'pollution' then sure, but I don't think it is in the case you're making it.

Stormwater is completely separate from the sewage system. 

[SunKing]

actually it is an old sewage ROW, as in toilet

[finehoe]

Stormwater is completely separate from the sewage system.

But is still polluting:

http://water.epa.gov/polwaste/nps/urban.cfm

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Stormwater is completely separate from the sewage system.

But is still polluting:

http://water.epa.gov/polwaste/nps/urban.cfm

Lol, yes, but so is any topical runoff. 

[camarocane]

There is a large stormwater drain pipe that runs to the river.  You can see this submerged outfall from the bulkhead.  So, no, the JEA will not be abandoning that easement.

JEA owns sewer (poop) pipes, COJ owns stormwater (rain)pipes.

JEA owns the easement which leads me to believe there is a sewer pipe somewhere down there. Thats not to say it wasnt open to the river at some point during its history. But chances are there could be both down there.

[finehoe]

Stormwater is completely separate from the sewage system.

But is still polluting:

http://water.epa.gov/polwaste/nps/urban.cfm

Lol, yes, but so is any topical runoff.

And both cause harmful effects on drinking water supplies, recreation, fisheries and wildlife.  Not sure why that is "lol" worthy.

[SunKing]

There is a large stormwater drain pipe that runs to the river.  You can see this submerged outfall from the bulkhead.  So, no, the JEA will not be abandoning that easement.

JEA owns sewer (poop) pipes, COJ owns stormwater (rain)pipes.

JEA owns the easement which leads me to believe there is a sewer pipe somewhere down there. Thats not to say it wasnt open to the river at some point during its history. But chances are there could be both down there.

Yes there most likely are both but the original intent of this ROW is a for a poop pipe that still exists and runs some 30 out into the river.  It was never designed nor intended for anything else, especially a park.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Stormwater is completely separate from the sewage system.

But is still polluting:

http://water.epa.gov/polwaste/nps/urban.cfm

Lol, yes, but so is any topical runoff.

And both cause harmful effects on drinking water supplies, recreation, fisheries and wildlife.  Not sure why that is "lol" worthy.

Hyperbole = lol

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Yes there most likely are both but the original intent of this ROW is a for a poop pipe that still exists and runs some 30 out into the river.  It was never designed nor intended for anything else, especially a park.

If that's the case (and I don't know one way or the other), then the sewage pipe wouldn't be active any longer.  All sanitary sewage lines are supposed to be on a closed system.

[Ocklawaha]

um  no. Rattler. The street ends have always been publicly owned. They were built by the developers of Riverside Avondale as part of a city plan put together by Ella Griffin Alsop, Mrs. Cummer, Mrs. Trout and many others.  George Simons finished it in 1924, I believe, but the Society Women of the old capitalists had already been instituting these ideas since the Great Fire and the subsequent rebuilding. When the property passed from the old honeymoon estate and Commercial Street was renamed Riverside Avenue the street and their ends were publicly owned from the very beginning.

Public ownership of transportation routes and roads has been a vital element of capitalism for about 2.5 thousand years.

The Romans were the first to figure this out, try and catch up.

Nice shot Stephen! If you date roads to the Via Appia (certainly not the first road but the first major regional highway) you must turn the pages back 2,327 years.  If you date railways to The Diolkos (Δίολκος, from the Greek διά, dia "across" and ὁλκός, holkos "portage machine") Railway, which ran across the Isthmus of Corinth very close to the route of todays Corinth Canal, then the calendar runs back 2,615 years. So actually the Greeks figured it out first, but they invested in railways... the Romans came along and invested in highways and the whole empire went to hell in a hand basket.   

[camarocane]

Yes there most likely are both but the original intent of this ROW is a for a poop pipe that still exists and runs some 30 out into the river.  It was never designed nor intended for anything else, especially a park.

If that's the case (and I don't know one way or the other), then the sewage pipe wouldn't be active any longer.  All sanitary sewage lines are supposed to be on a closed system.

Drove down there during lunch (curiosity got the better of me), there are lift stations at the ends of Talbot and Greenwood. An aerial shows a manhole in the back yard of the property to the southwest of Van Wert along the river. I bet it turns at the end of the easement and heads behind the homes. If there is an additional easement behind the riverfront lots I bet that line terminates at the Greenwood lift station.

LOL Ock!

[RattlerGator]

Ideally, the city should maintain everything it owns.

Ennis, are you speaking here with respect to keeping it, or the upkeep of it? Or both? The former, I seriously question. The latter, agreed.

I'm coming to town tonight. Little Van Wert is "platted to the river," huh? May have to go down there tomorrow and take a look around. My curiosity is definitely piqued.