JTA assesses Skyway; mulls where to go next

[marty904]

^My hope is that the infrastructure can be utilized for a much more efficient system. There's a reason there's no "skyways" being built in this country...

I beg to differ...

If you build it right... they are amazing and efficient!  Nice, large, clean, not free... I was happy to pay to ride the Las Vegas Monorail.  If you  improve it, bring it up to modern standards and maintain it, people will be happy to pay a small fee to ride it.  By making it free, it has become a moving shelter. 

[simms3]

^^^That monorail still only carries ~12K passengers a day for a system that is 2x as long as JTA's Skyway, goes places (case in point, 7,000 hotel rooms visible between Bally's and Flamingo in the picture excluding that off-Strip Westin...with Caesar's and Bellagio across the Strip, and world's tallest ferris wheel, an attraction), and touches 125K+ hotel rooms filled with tourists needing a ride somewhere.

I don't call that particularly stellar performance.  But that's just me.

[marty904]

^^^That monorail still only carries ~12K passengers a day for a system that is 2x as long as JTA's Skyway, goes places (case in point, 7,000 hotel rooms visible between Bally's and Flamingo in the picture excluding that off-Strip Westin...with Caesar's and Bellagio across the Strip, and world's tallest ferris wheel, an attraction), and touches 125K+ hotel rooms filled with tourists needing a ride somewhere.

I don't call that particularly stellar performance.  But that's just me.

Okay, some valid points, but if you strip away all the surroundings and consider what it is and what it could be, in a more non-tourist setting, my point is that we have a hefty infrastructure already in place.  Let's update it, expand it and use it for what it is.

All these "let's turn it into a street car even though it's not on the street" ideas are kind of out there... We all know that in it's current format, it is failing and not being "all it can be".  The Vegas monorail was just an example to show that modern skyways are being built and they can work, especially within the infrastructure we currently have, if it was updated, expanded and a small fee attached.  It could be amazing if (we) wanted it to be...

[karen904]

I live and work downtown.. and you know what...??  I'd pay money for it...I would love the opportunity to NOT have to jump in my car and drive to Fresh Market, enjoy dinner and drinks with my friends in 5 Points, shopping at the boutiques, brunch on Sundays and even catch a Jags game without having to park my car- since Im literally across the water.  Im trying to embrace downtown living by supporting the downtown "lifestyle" -- living, working, playing and shopping, etc.  Its just kinda weird I can only do it "half-way".   

[Charles Hunter]

I have heard that the structure is strong enough to hold light-rail / streetcars.  Of course, there would be a lengthy "down" time while they took the monorail beam out, and whatever else would be necessary for streetcar / light rail.

[thelakelander]

^^^That monorail still only carries ~12K passengers a day for a system that is 2x as long as JTA's Skyway, goes places (case in point, 7,000 hotel rooms visible between Bally's and Flamingo in the picture excluding that off-Strip Westin...with Caesar's and Bellagio across the Strip, and world's tallest ferris wheel, an attraction), and touches 125K+ hotel rooms filled with tourists needing a ride somewhere.

I don't call that particularly stellar performance.  But that's just me.

Okay, some valid points, but if you strip away all the surroundings and consider what it is and what it could be, in a more non-tourist setting, my point is that we have a hefty infrastructure already in place.  Let's update it, expand it and use it for what it is.

All these "let's turn it into a street car even though it's not on the street" ideas are kind of out there... We all know that in it's current format, it is failing and not being "all it can be".  The Vegas monorail was just an example to show that modern skyways are being built and they can work, especially within the infrastructure we currently have, if it was updated, expanded and a small fee attached.  It could be amazing if (we) wanted it to be...

I wouldn't classify the Vegas monorail and the skyway as the exact same type of technology. Yes, the are both examples of monorails and elevated but that's about it. With that said, the Las Vegas monorail is still expensive and prohibits the system from being expanded into adjacent districts like Riverside and Springfield. Switching to the Las Vegas example would probably require just as much as a rebuild as switching to modern streetcar. Here's a few closer pics of the skyway:

[spuwho]

^^^That monorail still only carries ~12K passengers a day for a system that is 2x as long as JTA's Skyway, goes places (case in point, 7,000 hotel rooms visible between Bally's and Flamingo in the picture excluding that off-Strip Westin...with Caesar's and Bellagio across the Strip, and world's tallest ferris wheel, an attraction), and touches 125K+ hotel rooms filled with tourists needing a ride somewhere.

I don't call that particularly stellar performance.  But that's just me.

They expect more ridership once the McCarron Airport extension is approved.  Having been just there a few weeks ago, its easy to see why it doesn't get as much ridership as it should, but if travelers had a one ride ticket to their casino from the airport, i think it would improve.

[Keith-N-Jax]

So, what should they do then? Or what would be ideal? Any ideas??

[thelakelander]

I'd be interested to see what the study results say before coming to a final conclusion. However, if I had to take a stab in the dark on 3/4/15, I'd start looking at the bigger picture, which includes utilizing the infrastructure to connect downtown with neighborhoods surround it that are either already fairly pedestrian scale or those where density can significantly be increased. If it's deemed that to make such a scene possible requires a switch to something like a streetcar, so be it. Bite the bullet, pull that center beam up, lay some track, extend at street level to other neighborhoods and run with it. If it comes out the the existing technology or some other form of fixed technology makes better sense, then we should go that route. 

[ProjectMaximus]

I'd be interested to see what the study results say before coming to a final conclusion. However, if I had to take a stab in the dark on 3/4/15,

Is that what you'd say on 5/4/15 as well?

I'm no transit expert so I don't know how vastly different these technologies are, but I believe there are useful people mover systems in Vancouver, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, and being built in Macau. So certainly some progressive places are utilizing something maybe somewhat similar.

I too would probably base my opinion on the results of this study. I absolutely want transit with its own ROW running from the North bank to Brooklyn, Riverside, San Marco, Stadium District and Springfield, but to what extent the skyway should be involved remains to be seen.

[thelakelander]

LOL, I don't know why I had March on my mind. Must be old age! I'm not familiar with the other systems but they all appear to be other forms of AGTs (Automated Guideway Transit). AGTs range from Jax's Skyway and Vancouver's Skytrain to PRTs (Personal Rapid Transit). AGT is just a generic term. None of the systems I described are interchangeable. They just happen to be automoted. Retrofitting the Skyway into either would require just as much of a rebuild as going to streetcar. Outside of an airport tram, we'll have to search long and hard to find something very similar to the Skyway that American cities are investing in today. This is one of its biggest problems. It's so unique they don't even make parts for it anymore.

[thelakelander]

Another difference between the Vancouver Skytrain and Jax's Skyway is that the Skytrain is basically a rapid transit system that's automated. The Skyway is an automated downtown circulator that one could easily describe as being a horizontal elevator. To make things more confusing, all AGTs aren't monorails. Both Miami's Metromover and the Skyway are AGTs. However, the Metromover isn't a monorail and the latest version of the Skyway is.

[thelakelander]

The original Skyway was not a monorail:



One of the reasons the Skyway's capital costs ended up much higher than it needed to be is because we retrofitted the system when it was expanded in the 1990s. The monorail version today:




For giggles, the original route verses what was built:

[Lunican]

A very valuable piece of the existing Skyway for a future system is the river crossing. The north side of the bridge has the steepest grade which LRT may or may not be able to handle, but the track essentially comes down to grade to dip under another ramp. Using this for LRT would be nice.

[jaxjaguar]

Was there a legitimate concern that caused us to change the design to include a center beam? The original design was almost identical to Miami's.

I just watched a video on the metromover and it's design just seems so much more cost efficient in every way. Modified buses with 4 sets of wheels and a 3rd rail.

Those pictures of the undercarriage of ours look like an engineering nightmare.