JTA assesses Skyway; mulls where to go next

[thelakelander]

It will be interesting to see what the results turn out to be....

Ridership up during One Spark; free ride carries 4,300 a day

The Skyway has been called a joke and a disappointment, downtown Jacksonville's token, underachieving elevated train.
ABC News once called it the "Ride to nowhere." The system — built for $183 million which first opened in 1989 — has parts so old the original manufacturer no longer sells them.

To increase ridership, trips have been free since 2012.

In rare setbacks for Jacksonville Transportation Authority CEO Nathaniel Ford, the Skyway has missed out on federal grants twice in the past two years that would have helped extend the 2.5-mile system into Riverside — where there is budding commercial and residential development, and thus potential riders.

But the JTA has never been fully prepared to abandon the system.

"We, as a city and as a region, need to be thinking bigger about our transportation network," Ford wrote in a Times-Union op-ed after the first federal grant was denied in 2013. "We cannot be afraid to fail as we chase a bolder vision."

Now, JTA officials hope a $349,000 study will help them find answers for what, in the short, medium and long term, to do with Jacksonville's Skyway.

"We're looking at everything," said Brad Thoburn, director of strategic planning and research for JTA. "Is it better to replace the vehicles as opposed to refurbishing the vehicles? ... What does it cost to extend the Skyway and how does that compare to a streetcar or [rapid-transit] system?

"We're at the point of trying to get all that information together."

Full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2015-05-03/story/jta-assesses-skyway-mulls-where-go-next

[Tacachale]

Very interesting. While I'm not terribly stoked about the prospect of yet another study, we need some real answers for what to do with the Skyway.

[Jax Friend]

Assessing the system on multiple variables is still a move in the right direction. As downtown continues to become a destination location, scenes like that at One Spark will become more common. The system was overloaded, lines formed, and people walked away. More passenger cars and extended hours could prove to be a game changer. When tourists visit Disney they know the format, you park and take the monorail. There is no reason for that not to be the mindset of visitors to downtown Jacksonville. The Skyway has been starved for funds for so many years that simple things like access, parking, and signage have fallen into disrepair. 

[Andy]

Yeah, I'm just glad they're being active with the Skyway in any way. I'm sure it's always been a focus, it would be fairly easy to just let it sit on the back burner forever.

I still think extending to Riverside and/or the sports complexes would do a good deal for the program, but at this point I also wouldn't be too angry if they turned it into a garden walkway or something. Just about anything is better than the limbo it's been in for so long.

[Tacachale]

I have to say, I continue to be impressed with the handling of Skyway issues by JTA under Nat Ford. It would be easy to just let it ride, as it were, but they keeping pushing on through.

[Keith-N-Jax]

Impressed with what? More money wasted on another jacksonville study. It's 2015, not 1989. If you don't know where the skyway needs to go by now you shouldn't be in office. Watch we will be reading this same article again in 20 years.

[thelakelander]

I think it's more about if we should continue investing in the Skyway's current technology, than deciding on where it should go. Reality is, the thing is an expensive dinosaur.

[Tacachale]

Pretty much. And it would be very easy to just let it go and focus on other things, as has been our wont. Perhaps if the decision is made to convert to normal rail technology (and fund it), we may see a streetcar in Jacksonville after all.

[thelakelander]

^My hope is that the infrastructure can be utilized for a much more efficient system. There's a reason there's no "skyways" being built in this country. Expansion to the stadium, etc. makes no sense because the current system couldn't handle the crowds anyway. There are better options for reliable transit out there that can be implemented and maintained long term at a much lower cost.

[Tacachale]

^Do you think there's any possibility of converting to streetcar tracks? Assuming the elevated portions could handle it, it would mean we could extend the system as a normal streetcar, without having to build more elevated tracks (except where it makes sense, like San Marco), and without having to worry about people transferring trains from the Skyway to a streetcar if/when one is finally built.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

It's been my understanding that the largest failure by not completing the original plan for the Skyway was that it truly is a system built to move no one to no where.  The 'no one' aspect seems to be changing faster than the 'no where', but they're both getting better.

The Brooklyn development is a nice immediate boost.  Healthy Town (or whatever it's called now) is a medium range boost. And then when you include all of the 'plans' for DT, from the core to the Shipyards, there appears to be a long-range boost in the works.

But isn't that what 'planning' is for?  To plan and anticipate what's coming and the best way to approach it? 

Immediate Need:  Connect Brooklyn

Then start finding creative funding to prepare to extend it either to Healthy Town (if really needed) or to the Sports Complexes (whichever development is solidly happening) - even if not all the way to the stadium, but at least to Liberty St. and give people a 7 block alternative to walking, and still connect to one end of the Shipyards.

Then if those extensions become successes, then discussions for extension into Springfield or San Marco or deeper into 5 points can start. 

[thelakelander]

The failure was we never built the citywide transit system that was supposed to feed it riders (ie. what Miami's Metrorail does for their Metromover). In addition, we've subsidized the decline of the downtown environment it was built to serve, replaced people with parking decks and surface lots, duplicated its route with the bus system and have paid no attention to the importance of integrating supportive land use policies with fixed mass transit. Basically, we're experts on what not to do if you want a successful fixed transit system.

With all of that said, it's not 1989 anymore. The system is pretty much an obsolete mode of fixed transit. Any talk of expansion has to be discussed in relation to if it's worth continuing to use the same technology or biting the bullet and upfront costs to switch to something that makes more sense in the long run.

[thelakelander]

^Do you think there's any possibility of converting to streetcar tracks? Assuming the elevated portions could handle it, it would mean we could extend the system as a normal streetcar, without having to build more elevated tracks (except where it makes sense, like San Marco), and without having to worry about people transferring trains from the Skyway to a streetcar if/when one is finally built.

IMO, that would probably be the best case scenario long term. Switching to some common-used light weight vehicle that can utilize the existing infrastructure, while also being compatible with the at-grade environment for potential expansion into pedestrian scale districts and select trip generators outside of the DT core.

[Steve]

My other concern would be with the inclines needed to get up there. Streetcar/light rail doesn't handle inclines particularly well so I'm thinking it would require quite a ramp, which could be pretty obtrusive at the points of incline/decline.

[Sonic101]

You should see the grades some of the streetcar lines in Pittsburgh do. IMO I think the Skyway should use the name "Express" to its advantage, with fewer stops and longer distances and leave streetcar to do the short stop-n-go work, but Jax probably isn't quite ready for that.