New Town Center Development Announced

[tufsu1]

Their proposed transportation improvements....


http://jacksonville.com/business/2015-03-02/story/better-traffic-flow-envisioned-st-johns-town-center

That's not really any different from what they have now.  There is currently two right turn lanes from Gate (NB) onto Town Center Pkwy (although one is not channalized).  All they are really doing is adding an additional through lane on TCP.  This will do nothing to address the horrible merge issue coming off of JTB onto Gate Parkway for vehicles trying to turn right onto TCP which is the major malfunction with that area.

^ good point....here's another issue...currently there is nothing on the north side of Town Center Pkwy so the right turn lane onto it can be free flow without too many weaving problems.  This development will now lead to weaving issues for folks turning right and then left, or left and then right.  The "solution" will be to eliminate the free flow right.
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[copperfiend]

I don't see this as much of an improvement either.

There was talk a few years ago of eliminating the light at the intersection of Gate Pwy and Costco. I think that would have helped but doesnt appear to be on the table any longer.

[spuwho]

Dedicated ramp off of JTB that goes in behind Costco and exits at TC Parkway betwwen Chipolte and Blue Cross would alleviate the Gate Parkway problem.

There is already an agricultural underpass there.

[fieldafm]

Dedicated ramp off of JTB that goes in behind Costco and exits at TC Parkway betwwen Chipolte and Blue Cross would alleviate the Gate Parkway problem.

There is already an agricultural underpass there.

That tunnel is not wide enough to fit more than two cars side by side... plus, to get to that tunnel requires a road to be built across several retention ponds and through private property (namely parking lots).

Town Center ingress/egress points are what they are. That ship sailed about 14 years ago.

[spuwho]

Dedicated ramp off of JTB that goes in behind Costco and exits at TC Parkway betwwen Chipolte and Blue Cross would alleviate the Gate Parkway problem.

There is already an agricultural underpass there.

That tunnel is not wide enough to fit more than two cars side by side... plus, to get to that tunnel requires a road to be built across several retention ponds and through private property (namely parking lots).

Town Center ingress/egress points are what they are. That ship sailed about 14 years ago.

The Ag tunnel would have to be re-purposed, re-configured, I get that, I was just saying there is already an underpass.  Drainage ponds have never been an obstacle in this town.

It's still possible to build a TC Loop that starts at St Johns Bluff and TC Parkway, circles around behind the development and connects with Big Island Drive. This would drive most of the Town Center "front end" traffic that all enter up front, to come around to reach Nordstrom, Dick's, etc. from the other side.

Right now, that purpose is being fulfilled by the cargo/fire ROW behind Target, Old Navy, Staples.  There was a JSO officer planted back there to catch those in a hurry last week. I am just waiting for a head on with 2 cars coming around that blind corner behind Target.

[southsider1015]

Dedicated ramp off of JTB that goes in behind Costco and exits at TC Parkway betwwen Chipolte and Blue Cross would alleviate the Gate Parkway problem.

There is already an agricultural underpass there.

That tunnel is not wide enough to fit more than two cars side by side... plus, to get to that tunnel requires a road to be built across several retention ponds and through private property (namely parking lots).

Town Center ingress/egress points are what they are. That ship sailed about 14 years ago.

The Ag tunnel would have to be re-purposed, re-configured, I get that, I was just saying there is already an underpass.  Drainage ponds have never been an obstacle in this town.

It's still possible to build a TC Loop that starts at St Johns Bluff and TC Parkway, circles around behind the development and connects with Big Island Drive. This would drive most of the Town Center "front end" traffic that all enter up front, to come around to reach Nordstrom, Dick's, etc. from the other side.

Right now, that purpose is being fulfilled by the cargo/fire ROW behind Target, Old Navy, Staples.  There was a JSO officer planted back there to catch those in a hurry last week. I am just waiting for a head on with 2 cars coming around that blind corner behind Target.

Not happening in the next 10 years. Neither FHWA nor FDOT can/will spend money to fix an off system problem like this.

It's not FDOT's fault or problem.  It's COJ, the Skinners, and the consultant(s) who laid out the initial concepts. 

I'd love to the see the traffic modeling performed for the Town Center.  I don't believe they even seriously considered how traffic would flow in/our/around the development.

Sad, frankly.

[thelakelander]

Sad indeed. Those local streets are a huge mess and an extra right turn lane isn't going to do much.

[southsider1015]

Sad indeed. Those local streets are a huge mess and an extra right turn lane isn't going to do much.

Zero.  Zilch. Nada.

Remove the Costco light.  Sorry Bonos and the adjacent apartments. Gate and TCP should be a 4 way intersection.  Maybe the Skinners got greedy when they sold the parcel to the gas station (Shell?) 

The loop concept as someone mentioned would have likely worked well.  Hell, maybe a grid would have worked.

Also, FDOT is proposing to widen the WB off ramp to 2 lanes (2 lane option, actually).  It'll help the Gate SPUI, but doesn't do much for Gate north of JTB.

[thelakelander]

Whatever happened to the plan to eliminate the Costco light?

[fieldafm]

Whatever happened to the plan to eliminate the Costco light?

Scrapped, they did readjust traffic flow behind the Shell (and added even more sidewalks to nowhere).

I was also told many years ago from both the public and private side, that a grid system was at one point discussed during conceptual review.

[tufsu1]

Dedicated ramp off of JTB that goes in behind Costco and exits at TC Parkway betwwen Chipolte and Blue Cross would alleviate the Gate Parkway problem.

There is already an agricultural underpass there.

That tunnel is not wide enough to fit more than two cars side by side... plus, to get to that tunnel requires a road to be built across several retention ponds and through private property (namely parking lots).

Town Center ingress/egress points are what they are. That ship sailed about 14 years ago.

The Ag tunnel would have to be re-purposed, re-configured, I get that, I was just saying there is already an underpass.  Drainage ponds have never been an obstacle in this town.

It's still possible to build a TC Loop that starts at St Johns Bluff and TC Parkway, circles around behind the development and connects with Big Island Drive. This would drive most of the Town Center "front end" traffic that all enter up front, to come around to reach Nordstrom, Dick's, etc. from the other side.

Right now, that purpose is being fulfilled by the cargo/fire ROW behind Target, Old Navy, Staples.  There was a JSO officer planted back there to catch those in a hurry last week. I am just waiting for a head on with 2 cars coming around that blind corner behind Target.

Not happening in the next 10 years. Neither FHWA nor FDOT can/will spend money to fix an off system problem like this.

actually stuff like this happens all the time in other parts of Florida.  And it can happen here too.  For example, take a look what FDOT will be doing off-system as part of the I-95 Fuller Warren project.

[southsider1015]

Dedicated ramp off of JTB that goes in behind Costco and exits at TC Parkway betwwen Chipolte and Blue Cross would alleviate the Gate Parkway problem.

There is already an agricultural underpass there.

That tunnel is not wide enough to fit more than two cars side by side... plus, to get to that tunnel requires a road to be built across several retention ponds and through private property (namely parking lots).

Town Center ingress/egress points are what they are. That ship sailed about 14 years ago.

The Ag tunnel would have to be re-purposed, re-configured, I get that, I was just saying there is already an underpass.  Drainage ponds have never been an obstacle in this town.

It's still possible to build a TC Loop that starts at St Johns Bluff and TC Parkway, circles around behind the development and connects with Big Island Drive. This would drive most of the Town Center "front end" traffic that all enter up front, to come around to reach Nordstrom, Dick's, etc. from the other side.

Right now, that purpose is being fulfilled by the cargo/fire ROW behind Target, Old Navy, Staples.  There was a JSO officer planted back there to catch those in a hurry last week. I am just waiting for a head on with 2 cars coming around that blind corner behind Target.

Not happening in the next 10 years. Neither FHWA nor FDOT can/will spend money to fix an off system problem like this.

actually stuff like this happens all the time in other parts of Florida.  And it can happen here too.  For example, take a look what FDOT will be doing off-system as part of the I-95 Fuller Warren project.

What, the multiuse path on I-95?  Or the system interchange?  Pretty sure it's all within FDOT ROW. 

Your loop idea might be possible, but the conversation should involved COJ, not FDOT.

The Ag tunnel?  What, all 20 feet of it?  Couldn't even fit a single 15 foot lane through it, with 2.5 ft shoulders?  No. Never putting traffic through it.

[southsider1015]

Their proposed transportation improvements....


http://jacksonville.com/business/2015-03-02/story/better-traffic-flow-envisioned-st-johns-town-center

That's not really any different from what they have now.  There is currently two right turn lanes from Gate (NB) onto Town Center Pkwy (although one is not channalized).  All they are really doing is adding an additional through lane on TCP.  This will do nothing to address the horrible merge issue coming off of JTB onto Gate Parkway for vehicles trying to turn right onto TCP which is the major malfunction with that area.

So where does the 4th lane drop on TCP, just past the first light?  So, what, another 200-300 feet?

There's wayyyy too many lights on TCP.  It's too obvious that they don't traffic on TCP flowing too  efficiently.  They think shoppers will shop more if they can't leave. They can charge higher lease rates because just about every parcel has an signalized intersection with dedicated lefts and rights.  It's a retail stores dream, and a freakin nightmare for shoppers.

[thelakelander]

What, the multiuse path on I-95?  Or the system interchange?  Pretty sure it's all within FDOT ROW.

^He's probably talking about the $200k being given to the city to convert College Street, back to a street with residential character. Before the replacement of the Fuller Warren back in the late 1990s/early 2000s, there was an interchange at College Street.

http://www.10and95.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/1120150226PublicInformationMeetingHandout11x17.pdf

[southsider1015]

What, the multiuse path on I-95?  Or the system interchange?  Pretty sure it's all within FDOT ROW.

^He's probably talking about the $200k being given to the city to convert College Street, back to a street with residential character. Before the replacement of the Fuller Warren back in the late 1990s/early 2000s, there was an interchange at College Street.

http://www.10and95.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/1120150226PublicInformationMeetingHandout11x17.pdf

I have zero faith that the City can and will use the money correctly, effectively, or efficiently. 

Zero.