Code Enforcement Demolitions are set to begin (Blight initiative)

[NaldoAveKnight]

"There's a lot of independent rehabbers in Jacksonville that would come in and fix up the existing historic houses while keeping with the vibe of the area if they knew their efforts would be rewarded."

What is this reward you speak of?

"There was open war between the drug dealers and hookers with the doe-eyed newcomers.  The newcomers were using the police and the drug dealers and hookers were using knifes, guns, and fire bombing houses that weren't up to the 'neighborhood standard'.  I was chased on several occasions by random groups of thugs late at night."

Damn, what streets did you live on?

Lived at 138 E 10th Street.  The drug dealers were operating around the corner at 2007 N Market Street.  Look it up, the drive-bys and all the crazy stuff is in the police records.  We would sit on the front porch, drink beer and watch the crazy stuff go down. 

I remember this nurse and her retired airline pilot husband from PA rehabbing old houses.  It was really a bunch of random people from all over, partying like it was 1999 and flipping these houses that were basically caving in.  One group of rehabbers paid their workers in beer.  The workers got drunk and ripped the plumbing fixtures out of the house.  When they refused to pay the workers real money they burned the house down.  Then Dusty Simmons hit the scene and I pulled out.  Anyone that does a reality TV show on the Springfield rehabber scene will be rich.

[iloveionia]

What's the worth of a historic neighborhood if not for preservation? I bought in 2007 after much research and convinced myself that because Springfield was Nationally Recognized houses could not be demolished. Boy. Was I way off on that one.
But hey. Why invest wisely in the housing stock of the Urban Core. Nah, building the tax base back for years to come is pointless. Vacant overgrown lots marred with liens scream progressive. Totally the way to go.
I think the best investments the city has made is with that Taj Mahal of a courthouse and that jumbotron at the stadium for one of the lowest performing teams in the NFL.

[Timkin]

1211 West 9th Street (RE# 053500-0000), 1939

This house is cute!  It is located in a great block in Durkeeville.

Why is this particular house slated for demo?

[vicupstate]

1211 West 9th Street (RE# 053500-0000), 1939

This house is cute!  It is located in a great block in Durkeeville.

Why is this particular house slated for demo?

It needs paint.

[JaxUnicorn]

1211 West 9th Street (RE# 053500-0000), 1939

This house is cute!  It is located in a great block in Durkeeville.

Why is this particular house slated for demo?

Apparently a tree limb fell on the right side roof.  Still doesn't mean it should be demolished........

[sheclown]

I'm not a lawyer, and I just don't understand how the city can "take" these properties without paying the owner for them.  Especially now that the ordinance has been expanded to include properties that are structurally sound.

There are owners who do not want their properties demolished.  If it is not a public safety issue, how can this be?

[ChriswUfGator]

I think I said this before, but I'm sure a large part of it is their guess that 99% of the time people won't sue. And they're right. The average person in this country doesn't know their rights, they know a miranda warning from seeing it on tv, but that's about it. Your normal citizen really has no idea, most people think the police are your friend, if you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about, lawsuits are bad, etc. The city demolished 1/3 of Springfield in the past 12 years, some 500 structures, mostly for highly questionable reasons using an engineer who has never recommended not demolishing a house when MCCD ordered the report, and to my knowledge, there have only been 3 lawsuits. Saying 99% of the time nothing happens is probably low. From a legal standpoint with the landowners, history has shown us (and them) that they have little or nothing to worry about.

The solution here is regulatory. In all but exceptionally rare cases, the landowners don't know their rights and/or don't care.

[vicupstate]

I think I said this before, but I'm sure a large part of it is their guess that 99% of the time people won't sue. And they're right. The average person in this country doesn't know their rights, they know a miranda warning from seeing it on tv, but that's about it. Your normal citizen really has no idea, most people think the police are your friend, if you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about, lawsuits are bad, etc. The city demolished 1/3 of Springfield in the past 12 years, some 500 structures, mostly for highly questionable reasons using an engineer who has never recommended not demolishing a house when MCCD ordered the report, and to my knowledge, there have only been 3 lawsuits. Saying 99% of the time nothing happens is probably low. From a legal standpoint with the landowners, history has shown us (and them) that they have little or nothing to worry about.

The solution here is regulatory. In all but exceptionally rare cases, the landowners don't know their rights and/or don't care.

I think you about correct, and it is a complete abuse of power which the mayor and council have fully endorsed. It is a very telling vignette into the ridiculousness that is Jacksonville.

BTW, what is the status of those 3 lawsuits? Frankly, I would think an brash up and coming lawyer would try to bring a class action lawsuit.   

[thelakelander]

I drove by this house and several others throughout the Urban Core and Northside earlier today. This house in particular, would be the first to go on a pretty nice and well maintained block of Durkeeville homes. The part of the roof where the tree hit, looks like it is not a part of the main structure. Perhaps, it was a porch originally?

Anyway, I saw several houses and structures worthy of demolition. However, it's hard to see the rhyme or reason to how this random list of properties was selected. At least in Detroit, they target isolated homes on blocks they'd like to abandon to save on costs to the city. In this situation, most of these structures are located in areas where there are several occupied residences surrounding them. Many seem structurally sound and the surrounding context makes them ideal candidates as affordable housing rehabs. Anyone know how the structures selected ended up on this random list?

[sheclown]

Lake, I had that same response/question when I drove around. 

Here's an interesting point.

Darcel, whose house is pictured above and ended up on this list, does not want her family home demolished.  True, it was in a fire a year ago and was condemned, but it is not an "emergency" demolition because nothing major has changed from a year ago.  (Truly if it were an emergency, it would have had to come down then, right?). 

She has contacted contractors and is in the process of planning the restoration of this structure.

And yet, it is on the demo list.

When a demo contractor pulls a permit for a demo job, he does not get a Notice of Commencement like all other contractors who perform work on a property over $2500 in Florida are required to do.  This Notice of Commencement is a legal form which notifies all interested parties that work is being performed on a particular property. The owner not only signs this, but notarizes it as well.  This becomes part of the permitting documents.  You cannot get an inspection or close out a permitted job without this.

Why don't demo contractors follow this when they pull a demo permit?

Is there some exclusion in the Florida Building Codes that allows demo contractors to pull permits without a Notice of Commencement?

But here's where it gets even stranger.

Although we can see from the bid docs that the contractors are getting paid $8 to $10k on average for the individual demo jobs, they are using $2400 as a job cost on the demolition permit applications.  By doing this, they are circumventing the whole Notice of Commencement requirement and thereby not putting themselves in a position to need the owners notarized signature.

Would Darcel sign and notarize a demo permit for her family home?  I seriously doubt it. 

With just this one step, requiring actual dollar amounts on the permit application (and thereby triggering the Notice of Commencement), demolitions without the owner's consent would be stopped.

This is something that PSOS has been researching for some time. 

Something....

[urbanlibertarian]

Government cannot be trusted with this much power over private property no matter who is wielding it.  For reasons I don't understand, bold, blunt action almost always seems to be politically popular.

[Kay]

How soon will she have quotes or something to show that she is serious about fixing it?  It will be helpful to have.

I think our code system is complaint-based.  Someone complains about a property and it gets action from Code. 

[ChriswUfGator]

I think I said this before, but I'm sure a large part of it is their guess that 99% of the time people won't sue. And they're right. The average person in this country doesn't know their rights, they know a miranda warning from seeing it on tv, but that's about it. Your normal citizen really has no idea, most people think the police are your friend, if you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about, lawsuits are bad, etc. The city demolished 1/3 of Springfield in the past 12 years, some 500 structures, mostly for highly questionable reasons using an engineer who has never recommended not demolishing a house when MCCD ordered the report, and to my knowledge, there have only been 3 lawsuits. Saying 99% of the time nothing happens is probably low. From a legal standpoint with the landowners, history has shown us (and them) that they have little or nothing to worry about.

The solution here is regulatory. In all but exceptionally rare cases, the landowners don't know their rights and/or don't care.

I think you about correct, and it is a complete abuse of power which the mayor and council have fully endorsed. It is a very telling vignette into the ridiculousness that is Jacksonville.

BTW, what is the status of those 3 lawsuits? Frankly, I would think an brash up and coming lawyer would try to bring a class action lawsuit.   

2 settled, 1 is still ongoing. But 3 landowners who stood up for themselves out of 500+ demos is just not going to serve as any kind of deterrent, it's not even a blip on the radar. I think one of the frustrating things about the preservation battle is that, if you look at the demographics involved in what's going on, it's lower-income people who are unlikely to be educated and have no idea of what their remedies are. The other slice of it are people who just don't care. A class action I think you'd run into certification problems, all of these individually will require expert testimony from an appraiser on damages, and then again from an architect or an engineer on the factual issue of whether the property was structurally sound. They're all going to be different enough that class certification is unlikely.

[sheclown]

But individually, if a house is taken down by the city, there is a potential law suit?  It's not that there aren't grounds but rather that there are not complaints?

[NaldoAveKnight]

Why is everyone getting worked up over this?  If the properties are owned outright by the landowners then they have a clean lot to work with after the demo.  It's easier to sell or develop this way.  If a mortgage or tax lien is on the property and it's in a serious state of disrepair then the owner doesn't have the resources to own property and has no business creating a nusiance for the responsible neighbors who pay their bills and take care of their lawn and house.

To anyone that is shocked that 500 homes were demolished in Springfield...did you even go into Springfield before the demos took place?  The place was a straight up war zone with addicts sleeping in and under vacant houses, crawling out just to eat at soup kitchens and beg or steal for drug/beer money.  It was a post-apocalytic freak show and that's no exaggeration.

The bandwagon jumpers on this board, who think the city is out of line, probably live in some gated community or nice enclave where there aren't nuisance properties.  To any of the folks that think demolishing nusiance properties is a travesty...I suggest you take up residence next to one of these lovely homes and then come back and post how you feel.